4464 Bittern to do 90mph on ECML - 29 June & 27 July 2013

Bitterns Performance Yesterday Superb. The Duchess and Tangers held there own though as well. It was a great day for steam! Imagine the Duchess going at these speeds.

 

46229 hit 96mph on her epic Euston-Glasgow run in 1996.

 

24 hours later, and ive still got the image from the window as we rocketed through Newark in my head and looking down at the app on my iPad swapping between 90,91,92 and 93 for mile after mile.... and when it turned the handle at Hitchen and went from 78 to 88 in a few seconds.., repeating the same exercise at Doncaster and just making it look easy. (Our Class 90 on the way back was around 92-95 !), ok 93 maybe 92.8 and my ipad rounding, its still fast.

I was reading back over my posts today and thinking maybe I should correct the grammer, but on reflection the reason for the typos was my haste to get out the excitement I was feeling, I should leave it as historical record... that trip was more exciting than any other steam railtour in recent memory.

That railtour was unlike any other ive come across.. no strolling around Londons suburbs, no leap frogging commuter trains, no slow trundles and the odd canter in the 60s... it was mainline express steam.. pure and simple, if we werent stopping or starting.. we were in the 70's or higher.. for the full trip (uphill sections too)... 50 or 60 didnt really come into it, even after being held south of Colton Junction, we climbed to the 70's again before York. Bittern quite simply made it look easy.

Ive watched all the videos on here today, some several times.. the recurrent theme was high speed, fast short film clips... the fact so many photographers really only got one shot (Rather than several locations along the way) also shows the trade off for speed.. chasing it will be hard in future. But yeah those videos look and sound good.

I saw less than a handful of people I would consider to be "wrong side" of the fence, and even then it wasn't in a dangerous spot, similarly on the train the stewards made a point of people not "window hanging"..I'll be honest the only time I sat in my seat between KX-York was <10 minutes during the Holme water stop, the rest of the time I was at the window, even then though at 90.. your hardly in a position to be sticking your self out the window... I missed breakfast and champagne.. but as I said in one of the posts.. I had other things on my mind.

With steam trips "upto 75mph" with acceleration / slow down, fast/slow switching etc, the reality is 50/60mph paths and short bursts in the 70s, with 75mph paths, with upto 90.. the game clearly changed.. for me literally when we over took the commuter EMU... and it, itself was moving quiet fast...
After doing York in around 4 hours (3.5 excluding water, by comparison the class 90 was 3 hours returning) yesterday, suddenly doing 70013 to York from Victoria in 7 hours this coming saturday.. just doesnt feel the same.

A big thanks has to go to everyone who made this happen.. this was a memorable occasion, (sharing my personal top spot memories with seeing 6 mainline steam hauled trains in Trier station in 2010 occupying all platforms.. and 1 in the yard and another doing the shunting with not a diesel insite)..! As for the headboard... at 90mph watching the video you dont notice it, what I noticed more was "the Royal Scot" running boards on the side of the stock...wouldnt it be nice if these were more appropriately titled instead

All the talk on the way back was about "on going negotiations, for the next loco to do 90mph" (you know which one, and the clue was in the 2nd support coach on the train), lets not forget though a Black 5 at 75mph may be good too, and with it all high expectations for the future potential of mainline steam.
I really do hope so...

 

Nice post ADB968008 and the "ongoing negotiations" really does whet the appetite.

 

Thank you for the post ADB968008. The A4s are said to be very sensitive to slight variations in cut-off and are only just starting to "come alive", as one support crew member once put it, at 75mph. Your comments on the acceleration are interesting as is your view from on the train that the task looked easy.
Running at 90mph was suspected to be a potential game changer for the integration of steam hauled excursions on the mainline. One of many questions is the matter of how many locomotive owners would, upon serious reflection, be prepared to allow their ageing charges to work at this speed? The A4 is at an advantage in that it is not required to produce as much power as other designs to achieve this.
4464 has answered a number of questions and if it completes the series successfully will give even more food for thought.
The video film makers might not be too happy with the higher speed, but the travelling public would benefit from later starts to the day and more time at the destination.
Maybe it is time to start thinking about a new build. A4 mark 2 anyone?

 

Video of Newark Northgate attached.
Despite changing setting in media player to 16.9 it still comes out at 4.3. Any ideas?

 

Trouble seems to be, you spend all morning waiting for it and when it turns up you are not ready.

 

Ralph,
No camera is set at 16.9, and when you play on the computer its 16.9 as well.
Chris.

 

Dan,
Above film not mine. You can see me with guy behind in the shot.
Chris

 

Windows media player

 

The duchess would do these speeds dead easy. In 1985 was on the South Yorkshireman when 6229 worked south to do a season of Shakespears. We lost a hell of a lot of time due to various problems outside of the scope of the organisers.
We had a glimpse of what was to come through Tamworth, but the real fireworks started after the water stop at Tyseley.
As soon as the train was on the mainline at Tyseley the acceleration was incredible we were just short of 90 by Knowle this high speed running carried on all the way to London where we were only 15 down, now before anyone says anything in those days BR didn't mind speed if the train was behind time.
Black 5 no 5000 was timed at 85mph on the North & West, the procedure was dawdle up to Church Stretton lose a load of time and then go for it after the photo stop at Church Stretton so long as the train arrived right time at Hereford nobody minded.

So my view has always been let them run, no false speed limits as Saturdays run proved to do so makes it easier on the uphill sections.

Cheers Dave

 

It is fair to say BR turned a blind eye to the 60MPH limit when it suited, just a pity they had gone and TPWS was on the way by the time I started doing tours in earnest.

 

While 90MPH would be handy in certain places, I very much doubt schedules these days would require it to be sustained for long, in most cases after any distance, your catching up a stopper on double yellows or braking accelerating from pathing/water stops and TSR's too.

Long story short, I doubt say 20 miles at 90MPH in a 250 mile tour would hurt too much, but would aid pathing at fast pinch points no end, say time tours generally at 75-80MPH, but have an "overspeed" option up to 90MPH if required to make a path fit.

 

I agree David. I have always suggested that the traction inspector should be allowed to sanction 'over-speed' to solve schedule/operational issues, and illogical manoeuvres like braking on a downgrade just to keep under 75. I guess NR would need all locos to be tested at 90 - as Bittern was - before this rule could apply? This could be part of the loaded test run carried out when a loco re-enters service following overhaul?
Best not get carried away here. All the comments from those in the know in various railway press all stress that these runs were very special cases. Having said that, their success will provide positive evidence to any future high-level discussions concerning upping the limit for mainline steam.

 

I think the outpouring of emotion for higher speeds should be tempered with the thoughts of what could happen if something did go wrong mechanically.

Possibly somebody could compare the level of damage to motion etc.., that would be done at 75 as opposed to 90mph.

Would not like to see a loco permanently retired on the back of a "illogical" high speed jaunt, without due prep, and testing.

That would have to be much more stringent (as if it is not now), and maybe only allowable to loco's within first 6 years of ticket????

 

Do you remember when Ed Burkhard was boss of EWS he said that steam was so infrequent that hammer blow argument was of no consequence.
I was on a trip within the last 10 years when 45305 was running at 75MPH consistently for some miles dead easy.
Which causes the most problems letting an engine run freely subject to Pway limits or to flog it all day on an overloaded train?
As a matter of interest I would love to see DoG given its head I reckon it would surprise a few people./

Cheers Dave

 

Right, I've finally got round to sorting out my photo's from Saturday............................................... ADB, you didn't give us a wave as you flew through Hatfield...................................... or did you? She certainly wasn't hanging about

Luckily we got an early warning that she was coming as her high intensity headlight lit up a London bound HST!

Here's the best of my efforts from Hatfield.

Clicking on slideshow will give you the best view.

At Full Tilt

Chime for a whistle

Streaker!

And a video of her passing from a good friend of mine.


Ebor Gum Yorkshire Bound

Does any one know just what Tornado's support coach was doing in the consist, apart from looking pretty?