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4464 Bittern to do 90mph on ECML - 29 June & 27 July 2013

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by buseng, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. Shoddy127

    Shoddy127 Well-Known Member

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    Stunning stills Mark!
     
  2. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Watching the videos, one thing that strikes me, is the sound of the exhaust..
    at slower speeds it almost sounds off beat.. but at 90.. it's just purring along...
    reminds of Concorde being much the same…
     
  3. springers

    springers Member

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    I also noticed how clean the exhaust was.I guess Welsh coal.
    Colin
     
  4. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Thanks to everyone for sharing their videos. Particularly the one at Doncaster southbound. Just makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up!

    Perhaps also a word of praise for whoever is maintaining Bittern at present. I bet they have made absolutely sure of bearing lubrication and condition, and in particular the infamous two-to-one derived motion for the middle valve. Did it used to be the middle big end that could cause problems when the A4's were in squadron high-speed service?

    Anyway, whoever is looking after the loco on a day- to- day basis, they must be doing a superb job, and be confident of the loco's ability to run at sustained high-speed. Well done.

    ...And all this some 50 years since the A4's departed from the southern end of the ECML. Truly amazing.
     
  5. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    At slower speeds you'll' hear the syncopation typical of Gresley three cylinder locos whilst that will be less evident, if evident at all, ay higher speeds. Regulator and cut off settings can make a difference too. On a run with 60009 over Druimuachdar in the early 80s all manner of rhythms came from the chimney as the driver adjusted his settings.
     
  6. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The big end was redesigned in early BR days and failures became almost a thing of the past. 4464 will have this type of big end. Also bear in mind she was never worked particularly hard at high speed, as opposed to the thrashing that Silver Fox received in the 1930s when Edward Thompson ordered the driver to "go for 100" when the loco was not set up for it.
     
  7. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest






    Tom, that has to go down as the Nat Pres post of the year. If not the post of the century so far!​

    So far as Saturdays run with Bittern, I've just had the first report fr0m one of the lifelong hardened timers. I think he's still sorting out all the data but a 90 max on the first section, then 93 max twice on the second. No doubt the detailed logs will give the final speeds. Highly creditable 67.0 and 69.9 mph start to stop sections.​

    This whole series of runs has to be seen as a major triumph for current steam locomotive rebuilding/maintenance etc and running , (by all concerned), of main line steam locos.​

    Of course I'd love to see a Merchant Navy really let loose on Basingstoke - Woking again. But watching this happen with the A4 is still pretty good for a lifelong Bulleid fan.​
     
  8. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Imagine how it's been for we lifelong Gresley fans. :)
     
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  9. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    It was the detail of the whitemetal application that was changed in BR days as well as the introduction of the machined as opposed to hand scraped surface. Originally there were pockets to take the white metal and bars of bronze remained to take the thrust and weight. The de Glehn type of thin white metal surface, as used by the GW and applied to the LNE design middle big end could run for 50000 miles and exhibit 0.0004" of wear. The big end strap was modified in LNE days and there were some detail changes regarding setting the whole job up. Thompson gave his infamous instruction and the original bearing surface detail failed to function. Some people believe that the whole centre big end design was changed, well next time you get a chance have a look.
    As for the conjugated gear; it works. Fail to lubricate it and it won't. Just the same as any other valve gear. It has some advantages and some drawbacks ditto other types. You want a three cylinder engine without eccentrics between the frames and have good reasons for this what do you do? If you can solve the problem you also make the preparation task a little easier. Gresley's solution survives to this day. Perfectly good for 90+mph running 90 years or so after it was created.
    Well done to all involved in keeping it that way and to those involved in exhibiting the truth of this statement over these three celebratory runs.
     
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  10. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'm sure I once read somewhere that the middle big-ends of the A4s were changed to "Stanier pattern". Anyone know about that?
     
  11. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Didn't the optical lining of the frames also help?
     
  12. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps the next target is to emulate the 140mph that an A4 once reached going down Stoke bank. Claim made this month's Steam Railway...!
     
  13. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

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    Read that article ....it was certainly "rocking and rolling".....marvellous to read the driver/firemen accounts and how they loved their jobs......
     
  14. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    True enough. The LNE could never manage to invest enough in Doncaster Works. The fact that the engines built could be as good as they undoubtably were speaks volumes for all the people involved. So the trains run this year serve to emphasise the qualities of the people that have been working on and with Gresley engines over the years.
    Could Bittern or another of the A4s do even better than was achieved this year. Undoubtably yes. How much better? Sadly we will in all probability never get to know. But that does not prevent us from wanting to find out.
    The prospect of a run at 100mph elsewhere could precipitate a reaction though.
     
  15. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

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    It would certainly put bums on seats......including mine.......
     
  16. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Not sure how optical lining, ie using light beams to paint the lines on the frames would make them any better, unless it's a 'go faster' stripe.:rolleyes:. However aligning might help.:)
     
  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Not certain how I feel about that one. Being allowed to run on at up to 100 mph is not the same as being driven up to 100 mph if you get the distinction. I suspect that any loco owner would like to be reassured that every one of today's crews understands the difference, which I hasten to add does not mean that I am implying they don't.

    If the speed restriction down Stoke were to remain then it effectively prevents a natural rise of speed to three figures on that section. By contrast, last Thursday, when you look at the gradient profile and speed logs in the Darlington area, had Bittern not been eased when she reached her maximum speed there were still 4 more miles to Croft Spa in which to reach a ton before hitting the climb to Eryholme.

    Does it all really matter? On the other hand, if permitting speeds up to 90 on certain lines and with certain locomotives unlocks more paths then that is a good reason for doing it.
     
  18. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    Point. But did you have to? Season of goodwill approaching and all that. Any one can have an off moment. Some are more excusable than others. (Don't mention Saturday afternoon, don't mention Saturday afternoon............. Grrrrr)
     
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Had to chuckle leaving York. A steward announced "no heads out of windows please. Cameras and microphones ok bit no heads." FAir enough but the then went and told anyone with a camera or mic out the window "shut the window please." So how can you get a mic or camera out of a closed window?
     
  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Now I'm an A4 man through and through but that's just nonsense. Proof that SR exists in the realms of fantasy.
     
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