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4464 - Western Streak - 18-10-14

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by LMarsh1987, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    So, not long to go now. The main question surrounding this tour for me is, will the tour take to the Lickey Bank in daylight hours ? Or will it be a night time attack of the bank ?
     
  2. GBoreham

    GBoreham Member

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    I personally would prefer it to be the former, or even at twilight for something different since I'm planning a trip down to the Lickey on that day. as long as there is some light I will be happy.
     
  3. stephenlammas89

    stephenlammas89 New Member

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    Im booked on this one. no tickets or timings yet. I cant wait for the A4 to climb the lickey. hoping it will be unassisted too.. has anyone ever seen an A4 through Bromsgrove or Birmingham?perhaps someone from VT can give us provisional timings?
     
  4. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    60009 went up the bank some year ago with a 47 in the rear, dropped off in the traditional fashion at Blackwell too I believe.
     
  5. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    Its a bit of a booger that the Southall / Brentford Railmotor is on the same day. Would have like to have done my first shoot on the Lickey with an A4, but the brentford rail motor is as rare as hens teeth.
     
  6. stephenlammas89

    stephenlammas89 New Member

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    will the a4 come straight from cheltenham,,up the lickey, or be routed via shrub hill, droitwich and single track to stoke and then up the incline?? pathing issues may suit to do the latter, can anyone help?
     
  7. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    NR, wont let the tour unassisted over the Lickey, so I'd expect the 47 on the back. Hopefully there's not to much assistance, and the A4 does the majority of the work. Worst case scenario for NR, would be allowing, Bittern unassisted, and then getting signal checked on the bank, or the near the start.
     
  8. stephenlammas89

    stephenlammas89 New Member

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    I would love to read about how NR path and time our steam train tours.. anyone suggest where i could find out this information?
     
  9. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I think a lot of us would like to know how they do it.
     
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  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    A good question. Try any crystal ball or alternatively any piece of timing software written by a committee of people who have never seen a steam locomotive except in a museum.
     
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  11. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Really could do with someone who knows about various steam loco's and their capabilities in such a role, for example, a single chimney castle is not comparable to a double type, despite both being labelled as 75MPH class 7's, as 5043 has proved itself at least a coach better than the single variant to Plymouth.

    Paper statistics don't give a true representation in many cases, needs someone who knows the job than a simple stat reader.
     
  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I feel I know enough about steam charter timings and the relative performance of steam locomotives to realise that the timings coming from Network Rail are just a means of slotting a charter into the substantive timetable and have no bearing on the locomotive involved (and why should it because it often changes) with only the maximum speed an input factor. Even then, what emerges is not always logical. It's only when a human actually sits down, looks at what the computer model is giving and then tweaks it that you might get something sensible. (It happened with the Bittern 90 mph runs thanks to DBS involvement). But NR wouldn't consider that a priority normally. So we are where we are.
     
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Why? Isn't their job simply to offer a path, take it or leave it? It's up to the operator to then decide on the combination of load and motive power and whether that makes the service commercially viable. If a single chimney castle is not up to the job, then knock a coach off, try and hire a different engine - or stick a diesel on the back. If you are already at the level whereby one coach either way (probably representing 35 tons in a train with a gross weight of well over 500) is the difference between reliably making section timings or not, then you are probably already overloaded. Sooner or later, the market needs to bite the bullet that either diesels will become almost essential, or else loads will have to come down (and prices go up).

    After all, Castles (and others) were, so I'm told, quite good locos. But 8 or so pre-war coaches is a considerably lighter proposition than 11 post-war coaches. The old railway was built around lighter trains (in seats per ton) and also faster downhill speeds to maintain averages, and with all surrounding trains being of broadly similar speed. None of those conditions still pertains - effectively we are sending racehorses out and wanting them to still perform like racehorses, but with cart horse loads.

    Tom
     
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  14. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The Castle example was pretty much that, my point was where pathing can be somewhat tight over a difficult section, some locomotives will have the capability to meet a demanding schedule whereas some other types may struggle, would some chap in Milton Keynes who isn't familiar with steam know such a thing ?, with the way pathing is in some places, being looped in an overly cautious path as opposed to allowing the loco to run when it's capable can result in a considerably more appealing day timewise.
     
  15. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    David - As Tom and I have implied, all NR will do is offer a path. Take it or leave it. Sometimes the path has to be silly to make it fit around everything else. Sometimes it is just plain daft. For example, for a while it was the norm that anything starting out of Holme Loop on the ECML was allowed 9 minutes to get to Peterborough to pick up. That's over seven miles start to stop. If you were lucky you could do it in 12.

    Hopefully the Western Streak will not be plagued by such things. But if it is I'm prepared to bet that VT will not have the A4 dragging around a load of 13 to try and cope.
     
  16. spicer21

    spicer21 Guest

    Question for Ben perhaps, but is it likely to be possible to join the train at Didcot and alight at Birmingham NS ?

    Guessing the train may not be platformed at Didcot Parkway though.

    Many thanks
     
  17. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    I think it's a real shame that the economics of UK steam trips indicate quite long trains are always needed to make things pay.

    Be lovely to be able to run such as a MN on an 8 car train. Push the max up to even just 80mph and some decent fast schedules would be possible. Bit like the German 012 pacifics did. They could handle very heavy trains on fast schedules. But did some fabulous work on lighter trains: Rheine -Emden and Kiel - Hamburg for instance.

    And for an A4, getting back on thread, the run up Lickey would definitely be steam only, (who knows what it will be on the day!) ;).

    But life ain't like that "over here", and never will be so stop dreaming Yeti and get back to reality and your Owls!
     
  18. Ben Vintage-Trains

    Ben Vintage-Trains Member

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    We are still working through a couple of challenges; one issue is will the length of the proposed train fit with the signals at Didcot Parkway without blocking the mainline. It we are platformed at Didcot Parkway and we have spare seats, then I have no issue with a pay-on-the-day fare from Didcot to New Street. If we are not in the platform, then joining could be a bit more challenging! ;)

    I post an update when it is confirmed either way.
     
  19. spicer21

    spicer21 Guest

    Many thanks Ben as always for your engagement and information. I will look out for your post.

    Best wishes
     
  20. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    Well Shack, you have clearly not seen "Emperor of the North"
     

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