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4472 What colour

Discussion in 'National Railway Museum' started by 73129, May 8, 2008.

  1. gresleyman

    gresleyman Member

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    About as new as it gets, its sat in red oxide primer ready to go on.
     
  2. Anthony Coulls

    Anthony Coulls Well-Known Member

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    We are forthcoming -you've read it all in Steam Railway,

    Cheers
    Anthony - off to bed after 1 hour's sleep since Monday morning.
     
  3. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    That's not quite the same as a direct response on this forum, but I'll excuse you due to the lack of sleep - I daren't ask what's been keeping you up all night ;-)

    The SR article is also rather vague as to whether the vac brakes are part of the £250k or not? Can you clarify, then I'll give that chimney some serious consideration.
     
  4. Anthony Coulls

    Anthony Coulls Well-Known Member

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    Midnight flight from Sierra Leone, that's what's kept me up - and made me a bit tetchy probably, for which I apologise.

    The collections team at NRM is very small really when you consider what we have to do, so regular reports here are not as forthcoming as they might otherwise be as the day job gets in the way.

    The vacuum gear was comprehensively removed from 4472, and it isn't as straightforward as just bolting it back on. I'll speak with Jim and see - but one thing to bear in mind - yes, it will be great to tour with 4472 BUT there is also a need to have it on show at York from time to time. It's going to be one busy engine.

    Thanks for your patience, as I get back to the real world I'll do what I can.
    Cheers
    Anthony
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I said more or less exactly that four pages ago. Hopefully those who think it is a simple fix will accept it as a fact now that you've said it!
     
  6. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'm not aware that anyone thinks it's a simple job, especially when you consider that A3's were vacuum braked originally IIRC and therefore the changes must have been fairly major. All we want to know is a) is the refit a certainty, and b) is it included in the £250k.
     
  7. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    While i appreciate it would be a tough job, given that she's had her boiler changed, one of her cylinders changed, and she's had her frames straightened, it would seem to me that putting in vacuum brakes doesnt seem out of proportion to the other work done on her.

    Chris
     
  8. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    If cash is the issue for not reinstating Vacuum brakes now would the NRM consider putting vacuum brakes back on her if someone or a group of people donated the money for the reinstating of vacuum brakes. If this is yes will Steam Railway considers putting an appeal out for the vacuum brakes to be put back on.
     
  9. John Elliot Jnr

    John Elliot Jnr Well-Known Member

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    Without wanting to sound crass, what objective would operating 4472 on preserved railways meet that operating it on the main line would fail to achieve?
     
  10. Kerosene Castle

    Kerosene Castle Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't really achieve anything new, but I'd say making the engine more easily accessible to the general public is a worthwhile objective. Though that said, it does give you the chance to pair it with a set of teaks etc, which although not exactly groundbreaking, isn't something you can just dismiss.

    Then again, installing a new brake system can cost a heck of a lot of money, and would make a significant dent in that £250k. I never realised just how complete the removal of the vac system had been... a sad reflection really.
     
  11. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    She was apparently saved for the nation, so it enables those who cant afford, arent aware of, or arent near any of the pick up points of her railtours the chance to see and ride behind her.

    I really dont see why she cant do mainline trips and short visits to heritage lines, while still spending a decent amount of time stuck in the NRM's Scotsman Story exhibit - especially given the benefit it will give preserved railways during the difficult years ahead.

    Chris
     
  12. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Chris, I agree totally with your coments.
     
  13. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Would the vacuum gear off another engine in the collection as a tempory measure work? or off an engine that is in storage on some line somewhere work, i would have said take the vacuum ejector off of mallard if its the same as fitted to an A3 or has someone somewhere got a spare ejector that could be lent this would be the time to do the work, before the boiler goes back on ,to run the necessary pipework , is the loco still steam braked or was she converted to all air on engine as well as tender ?
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'm open to correction but I didn't think it was ever steam braked. Certainly the (old) GA I have shows vacuum cylinders. Refitting the vacuum involves a lot more than simply fitting an ejector and a bit of pipework. It may be possible to fit an ejector and an air/vac proportional valve and associated equipment to apply train vacuum brakes but I'm sure that the NRM will have already looked at this possibility and dismissed it for whatever valid reasons
     
  15. southyorkshireman

    southyorkshireman Resident of Nat Pres

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    you wouldn't ideally reuse a dreadnought in this type of setup.... 19 and 6233 both use ejector designs that are separate from the application valve and are not in the cab (standard /LMS pattern?) Presumably if 19 is dual braked, then a similar design is theoretically possible on 4472?
     
  16. Edward

    Edward Member

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    Air braking seems to be a popular option for LNER pacifics now, eg Bittern. The reason is that the Vacuum cylinders are often knackered, and recasting is far more expensive than fitting air brake equipment, especially when the likely market for an RA 9 engine is NR.

    Surely, a diesel style arrangement could be investigated, where a vacuum system operates off the air arangement, thus making the loco a potential visitor to heritage railways?

    As for livery, did she ever carry wartime black, with NE on the tender?
     
  17. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    60019 Bittern has got vacuum and air brakes fitted to her. I don't think the MHR has got any dual brake stock anymore. May be the NRM could fit the same type of braking system that has been installed on 60019.
     
  18. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Tornado has a non-LNER arrangement too IIRC. Basically air-braked, but with an ejector hidden behind the LHS smoke deflector. Some kind of proportioning valve to ratio the vacuum to air pressure too I assume.
     
  19. Spinner

    Spinner Member

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    I thought that 'Flying Scotsman' was dual braked...



    Air brakes and...



    Handbrakes \:D/
     
  20. Kerosene Castle

    Kerosene Castle Well-Known Member

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    Apparently not even those! :-#
     

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