If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

45699 Galatea

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by TonyMay, Apr 3, 2010.

  1. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,609
    Likes Received:
    1,438
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    THE Jube is working hard with strong intermittent blasts and lifting any smaller particles of coal both burnt and un burnt probably being fired steadily and continuously.
    The Brit isn't, its only doing enough to keep its train moving at 20mph or so as its running towards adverse signals...?
     
    andalfi1 and staffordian like this.
  2. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    466
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Semi Retired.
    Location:
    Haworth
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Also one of the prerequisites of the Britannia design was a boiler-firebox design that could burn poorer quality coal, whereas a Jubilee firebox will not make steam at the same rate, with similar coal.
     
  3. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,681
    As has been pointed out a Jubilee is a racehorse but a shire is more the order of the day to slog a heavy load up a steep hill. Especially with a cold start and indifferent coal.
    The latter issue is strange because one of the trading arms at Carnforth is coal merchant so access to best quality should in theory be better than most.
     
  4. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    ESI Eng Manager (Retd)
    Location:
    NE Lancs
    From inception Jubilees had a reputation as poor steamers and there were several boiler and draughting modifications; the final result being acceptable rather than exceptional. Boiler dimensions are very similar to a Black 5 and perhaps the boiler fitted to the Black 5s may be better proportioned. Jubilees were designed for moderate weight expresses and the LMS classification of 5XP perhaps better reflects their capabilities than does 6P.

    Although seemingly identical, individual members of a class were often regarded as a "good 'un" or the best, perhaps Leander is one of those and Galatea should be regarded as typical.

    A cold start from Carnforth, with a heavy load (for a Jubilee) and possibly poor coal all combine to give the problems on Saturday. Maybe Leander would have done better. Even larger engines seem to give a more measured performance when starting from Carnforth than further south when the fire has been conditioned.

    Galatea seems well capable of working 9 coaches over the S&C (with ease?) but 11 northbound over Shap seems a risk (it needs 63% more HP to lift 11 up 1 in 75 than 9 up 1 in 100 - and at the same speed at least 63% more steam). Galatea has a class 5 boiler!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  5. Yorkshire Exile

    Yorkshire Exile Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    82
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Codger and retired trustee of A1SLT
    Location:
    Jersey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Ah but the best is never the cheapest!!!
     
  6. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    18,039
    Likes Received:
    15,732
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    c.20 years newer designed 7P performs better than 6P going up hill with similar loads shocker!
     
  7. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    14,900
    Likes Received:
    12,241
    You could also add in the fact that Galatea is 5 minutes into its preserved mainline career having been restored from an utter wreck. Having seen it many moons ago at Carnforth I'd never have imagine it would ever have made it onto the mainline. I'd imagine it'll take a long old time before it's running to its maximum potential, years rather than months.

    Simon
     
    Dobbs0054 likes this.
  8. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,558
    Likes Received:
    1,299
    Given the grate area of the Jubilee class and observing that some 4000+ hp can be maintained from 40 sq.ft. of grate with a compound and around 3000 hp for a simple then steam production for Galatea (and the others) should not be an issue providing that the fuel met an agreeable base standard. If the engine does not steam check for vacuum leaks and look to the exhaust system design. A really good exhaust system acts as a degree of insurance against leakage.
    61994 has a smaller boiler than the Jubilee. It has been caught out by the coal quality issue but seems to produce steam sufficient to deliver good performances with heavy loads once the fireman has come to terms with the characteristics of the machine.
    5596 is a while away but at least it features an attempt to improve the exhaust system. You could do a great deal more with little or no change to its external appearance if either desired or required.
    Yes, I like the Jubilees, the more so since the days of my many trips with 5690 and learning that they have far superior frame reliability than the larger Royal Scot.
     
  9. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    466
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Semi Retired.
    Location:
    Haworth
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    There was a lovely photo by Gav. Morrison of Galatea on Holbeck , after working a nothhbound 'Devonian' in the book of the same name, where he describes her as Best in Class, which seems to have been accepted then.
     
  10. 2J66

    2J66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,371
    Likes Received:
    274
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Argyll
    And if you want to read another positive take on Galatea's performance in times past then Terry Essery's description of a trip up the Lickey is well worth reading. Galatea was obviously a good 'un once.
     
  11. 2J66

    2J66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,371
    Likes Received:
    274
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Argyll
    Is it possible that this trip was the first time the fireman had dealt with a Jubilee & it took him a bit of time to get into the swing of things with a new engine & dubious quality coal? That's no criticism of anyone on the footplate - it happened pre 1968 & it will happen now. Whether DBS or WCRC, the footplate crews are all part time on steam & learning every trip. Had the Brit not been following so close would there have been pages of comment on Galatea's performance? Probably not. On Saturday the footplate crew would have gained a bit more knowledge & experience that they will put into practice on their next trip & chances are we'll all be singing their praises after watching the videos of 4XXXX storming Shap.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  12. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,445
    Likes Received:
    9,143
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    How soon people forget... speed quoted elsewhere on the Lowlander thread as low 70's there at Warrington.

     
    irwellsteam likes this.
  13. rule55

    rule55 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    219
    Just to clear up any possible misunderstanding, DBS drivers and firemen are all full-time drivers for the company although, obviously, steam work forms only a small part of their overall work. I suspect that that's what you meant but just thought I'd draw attention to this for clarity.
     
  14. 2J66

    2J66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,371
    Likes Received:
    274
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Argyll
    Thanks for your comment - you're right & post amended.
     
  15. daveannjon

    daveannjon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,059
    Likes Received:
    372
    Location:
    Waiting for the Right Away
    You probably don't realise how ironic your post is Spicer21, if Tyseley hadn't sold 5699 to Carnforth against the wishes of the Galatea Trust, they would probably have got the contract to overhaul her!

    Dave
     
  16. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,063
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Just so but after over seven miles downhill from Golborne, I would sincerely hope so!
     
  17. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    ESI Eng Manager (Retd)
    Location:
    NE Lancs
    Maybe she still is and her best is yet to come, or maybe we have unrealistic expectations. She certainly seems comfortable with 8/9 coaches.
     
    andalfi1 likes this.
  18. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    ESI Eng Manager (Retd)
    Location:
    NE Lancs
    Let's hope she makes it into everyone's good books, although I fear some people have already made up their minds and will look for "evidence" to prove their assertions.
     
  19. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,681
    That is a very sensible post if I may say. The main variable that needs to be properly managed is the trailing load in relation to the route. Whether '99 is a good un or not, overloading is not wise regardless of arguments about if a sister loco or comparable class could do better. Power ratings were not arbitrary and just because prodigious loads in emergency have occurred does not mean they should be a routine occurrence.
     
    andalfi1 likes this.
  20. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    466
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Semi Retired.
    Location:
    Haworth
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Paint it Green, that will sort it out !!!
     

Share This Page