46233 Duchess of Sutherland.

Presumably a favourable gradient for an A4 is down bank

 

I would have thought the A4 from a wind resistance point of view........

 

That very well may be the case, but this is a historical starting point, as 35022 hauled 9 over the gradients over the S&C (whilst it did Shap, there's no real comparison due to 35012 being stopped halfway up the bank by adverse signals), so would provide a way of comparison (give or take current TSRs and the single line over Ribblehead). There's always scope to increase the loadings over this imaginary 'test period'... At the end of the day, I just want to see an MN on any of the northern banks! Now back to 6233.

 

Update On livery

1st. 700 crimson lake
2nd. 581 br green
3rd. 553 br blue
4th. 66 lms black

crimson lake is gaining a lead now

 

I would love to see the actual, separate votes - as in, per person, for each livery, and not per telephone call, for each livery, for this poll.

 

I saw that before, I Immedeantly rang for BR Green!

 

Why?.

 

Because it would be indicative of whether there is actually a collective desire to see LMS livery again, or whether it is a few people mass-voting for the one livery to prevent other liveries appearing on the engine.

 

Why would anybody vote for crimson. Its going back into crimson anyway. Seems odd its even an option.

 

Well if you have a particular livery you want like anything else if you have enough money you can have it.

 

By voting for Crimson lake you are in effect contributing more to the restoration itself rather than just a paint job...

 

Help! Help! This thread appears to be stuck in a time loop! So what if crimson wins, the main point of the poll is to raise some cash for 6233's overhaul and so far £2850 has been raised assuming that every call gives the trust £1.50.

 

Democracy at work!

You can't have it both ways. Either it's a "democratic vote" where more people vote for a particular livery, or it isn't, and you have a few people with far richer pockets than my own voting multiple times.

My cynicism for this telephone vote is strengthening as I had a feeling when the poll was originally announced with those choices, that this would be the case.

 

Why is it a number of posters on this forum seem to hold the opinion that 'the people' want a colour other than red? ...that an alternative livery should be a mandatory requirement? ...not to have it BR orange with purple stripes goes against the nations wishes etc.

There is an opportunity for everyone who is interested to vote for the livery of the loco. If the final choice is for red then it simply means the fuss on the forum about everyone wanting an alternative colour is nothing more than internet myth.

If the colour choice is for crimson then it will mean the majority of those prepared to cast a vote have shown the most popular option is not for the locomotive to spend 12 months in an alternative livery, but for it to be painted red right from the beginning.

Those who don't like that outcome - ie. those in the minority, will no doubt then make the most fuss moaning and whining because they didn't get their way, and start spouting unsubstantiated statistics plucked from thin air to support why their preferences are best/fairest/most popular! ...followed shortly by prophecies of the loco not being wanted, gaining no periods of hire, loosing vast quantities of money and ending up a rusting negleted wreck at the end of a siding somewhere simply because it wasn't painted the 'correct' livery that everybody wanted. :lol:

The choice of including red in the list of options is entirely fair and sensible, why should those who care enough about the livery be forced to put up with an unpopular colour for 12 months simply because the most desirable choice was missed off the list of options?

 

You are basing that on the assumption that the Crimson Lake livery has more actual voters than the other suggestions. As I have said previously - I'd love to see how many individual voters there are, not just the number of "votes" collated (which is number of calls for each number).

 

The nature of the poll is such that each time somebody phones up they are counted as a 'voter'. If somebody wishes to call multiple times, then that option is available for everyone irrespective of their colour choice.

Given a large enough sample of people prepared to vote there are likely to be a number who will call multiple times for different colours, but to suggest one or two people will skew the results by phoning thousands of times just to influence the poll I think is verging on the realm of conspiricy theories, and the tantrums of those who find the end result (whatever the colour) isn't to their liking.

 

Question or should it be another poll.

How many people remember them in everyday service i do and the red one's were always my favorite everything else was black or green which made the red ones special.

In 1964 i never thought i would see one again and every time I go out with it i think how lucky i am just be grateful for what you have got nothing is for ever.

 

To add my twopennyworth, I would be much more comfortable with this poll if crimson red was not an option (for that, bluntly, takes away the whole point of a 12-month alternate livery exercise), and even more comfortable if everyone only got one vote (but still paid).

I have made one vote for BR Blue, but as a Student can afford no more. It galls me to think that other people with deeper pockets than myself get more votes - that is not democracy (though I accept it is beneficial for the engine).