46233 Duchess of Sutherland.

Well said.

I wonder how many people will be put off seeing 6233 in LMS Crimson Lake, if that is the livery that wins. There is such a thing as an image becoming stale - I think the 6023, 60163, and in fact Jeremy Hosking have got it right. Variety is the spice of life, and things like paintwork can always be changed later on, after all.

 

There didn't seem to be much of a problem with it being in Crimson Lake for ages. Have you forgotten that it went into LMS Black Frank? Surely your memory isn't going...

 

That one was Barking, Black with a lot of orange sparks as I recall.

 

Well, I think the criticism is coming at them for two reasons:

1. They presented this poll as "pay a pound and choose an alternative colour before she goes back to red in a year's time", yet it is turning out to be very different because, essentially, of people who want to block that. The Trust have erred by including the "no to change" option in a poll sold as something else entirely

2. So far, 64% of the votes have been cast in favour of a change, yet the conservative (small c) voters are succeeding, relatively inexpensively, in blocking this.

So, indeed, all the people who voted, or want to vote, for a new livery, are justified in feeling cheated.

And the Trust are shooting themselves in the foot by missing a great publicity opportunity.

If the vote were being conducted otherwise, they would be getting my money. as it is, they are not, and it seems to me I'm not alone - the number of people voting seems to be falling rapidly now.

 

Perhaps the integrity of the poll itself is suffering? I'm all for throwing money into the pot for 6233 but feel increasingly disinclined to fund a poll for which I have growing doubts.

And to add to earlier comments, the likes of 6023, 60163 and 4472 (in black) all show what can be achieved in marketing terms with an interesting lick of paint. Look back too to 9017 and the virtual 'rebirth' of that loco in 2009. And as for Bittern's recent transformation....

Those in charge of 6233 really are missing a massive opportunity if they roll out the loco in LMS maroon.

 

ADB - You aren't getting confused with "All cats are grey in the dark" are you - or even beer goggles???

As for the black livery - it was interesting how it soon went off due to road dirtying on each and every trip - and on something with the mass of a Duchess - that's a lot of sullied paintwork.

There again - if you have a black car - and I have two - they are impossibleto keep smart.

 

Well there is a new update on the site no it isn't about paint it is actually about the overhaul.266 posts and 250 about paint.

 

So? If you want a thread where news of the overhaul overshadows any paint controversy check out 6100's, but IMO its a good thing that the only real talking point is the livery poll. For the sake of everyone involved hopefully it will stay that way.

Chris

 

No I think most people on here are just train spotter's and no nothing about locomotive engineering .

 

Bit of an insult to a lot of people on here.

 

would you like to give us something engineering wise to talk about then??? please remember it is PRCLS who started the livery discussion by making the livery vote. now because this is updated every sunday it means during the week somone will end up talking about it. and obviously people on here no nothing about engineering a very well argued point you have made not just something you have plucked out of the air

 

woaaaaaaaahhhhhhh easy tiger!!!

bit of a statement there! as to the duchess personally i'd like to see it in BR green, but blue would be something different

 

Noticed Mr Wilcock picked up on one of my comments in this thread in this month's Heritage Railway - a full page spread entitled "Enthusiasts think Duchess livery poll is deeply flawed". There is a selection of comments from this very thread on Nat Pres, in fact. All of which I agree with wholeheartedly.

I don't think BR Green, or Blue, (and especially not LMS Black!) are going to win, however many votes will be cast for them, therefore any future votes I would have made in the poll, are staying firmly in my wallet.

I - personally - think a repaint into LMS Crimson Lake will be a PR disaster for the PRLCT at this point. The question has now been raised in the railway press as to its legitimacy; it is up to them to allay people's fears and reassure their public that this poll is not in the hands of several, wealthy people with a vested interest in the locomotive's livery.

 

Having now clapped eyes on Tornado in Brunswick Green - just as I remember them - all the green haters can cordially go and boil their collective heads.

A thing of beauty outshines all the nonsense being spouted, and the publicity value of ringing authentic changes is proven - those who can't see the merit in improved public relations and cash flow that stems from such a policy will be the losers.

Their choice.

 

There is one comment that sticks out in my mind on all this, when Steam Railway reported it someone from the PRCLT (can't remember who now) was quoted as saying "All those who want it BR Green this is your chance, use it or lose it!" that to me does make it sound like they want us to lose it so they can say "you had your chance but it was not to be" so they can shut us up once and for all on the matter. For the record I have made a few votes in favour of BR green as I would like a chance for a year or so especially if it goes to the head of WCRC Maroon stock.

 

Perhaps an Alternative vote system would sort this out?

Currently, the votes stand thus:

727 Red
625 Green
583 Blue
067 Black

So, Black is eliminated. I imagine that as an LMS livery the 2nd preference of the voters for Black will be Red. So it now stands at:

794 Red
625 Green
583 Blue

So, Blue is eliminated. I imagine that as a BR livery the 2nd preference of the voters for Blue will be Green. So it now stands at:

1208 Green
0794 Red

TaDah!!! The majority has spoken. BR it is

 

Why a PR disaster?

[/QUOTE] The question has now been raised in the railway press as to its legitimacy; it is up to them to allay people's fears and reassure their public that this poll is not in the hands of several, wealthy people with a vested interest in the locomotive's livery.[/QUOTE]

It may have escaped your notice that the locomotive concerned is not publicly owned. Your use of 'allay people's fears' is more in keeping with a decision being made by politicians that will affect everyone. It isn't! It is about the colour of a locomotive which will not make it steam any better; go any faster or last any longer in service.

Just be thankful to all the people who ensured that it didn't get recycled as razor blades or Morris Marinas.

Meic

 

Ah, but presumably a great many of the people who have voted (i have decied to not to waste my vote for BR green, may as well vote Lib dem) either already have been or would be prepared to book seats on a Duchess hauled tour. They may be put off by the PRLCT's attitude, so this is bad PR.

I can fully understand them not wanting to paint it green, I mean its bad enough being an improved Churchward underneath they wouldn't want it painted the same colour on top too!

 

well the updates now follow as this

1009 for red
925 for green
701 for blue
70 for black

so this means that although green has had nearly 300 votes in one week red has also had nearly identicle to keep it upfront. could be coincidence tho...................