46233 Duchess of Sutherland.

Here's the loco on Saturday.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/graham_williams/6343934780/in/photostream

Members there told me that there is only the motion to go on and a few bits, before paint and completion.

 

I read the Steam Railway article, I thought it was a pretty good piece of journalism that showed the forum in a good light. In a nutshell it came over as "there were nefarious deeds going on, but it couldn't fool the NatPres people!"

A couple of things struck me in reading it and then reading back over this thread:

1. The "crowd wisdom" of this forum was very impressive, in that we had figured out very early on that the poll was being manipulated by a pro-red supporter with deep pockets.

2. The PRCLT seem to have been the victims rather than villains of the piece, in that Mr Ewart was firstly trying to kill the poll with his early 1000 votes, and then trying to override the democratic wishes of the majority with his attempted 5000 last-minute votes. The Trust realised both things and prevented it happening to a large extent by not posting the 1000 all at once, then refusing the 5000. I feel a bit sorry for them now - they admit they made a mistake by including red in the poll, but given the mistakes in the way the poll was set up, I think they then did the best they could to make things fair. I know a number of us doubted their motives at the time, thinking they too were set on it staying red, but I now don't believe that's true.

So well done to SR and David Wilcock for shining a light on the murky truth! And boo hiss to Mr Ewart.

 

Just to start out on the right foot- I am in no way connected with any of the parties involved with this.

Just a few things I have been mulling over reading this thread and the article.

1-It seems that the two major parties involved, whilst having the best interests at heart for 'Sutherland have both, in their own ways attempted to manipulate the poll which is wrong, and lessons must be learned about this for the future- both for the credibility of the owning group and for preservation as a whole.

2-Livery debates are dull (yes- I did just type that!), lets just have some variation- your never going to please everyone so lets just hope most engines will display different liveries during their operational stint. Are we aiming to recreate all of the steam age and/or educate and survive? If we are trying to do all of the above then in this day and age historical accuracy is good, but we need to represent all of the ages, whilst perhaps being mindful that a red engine in a non enthusiasts eyes is perhaps more appealing and photogenic than a black one- thus may be more appealing to the masses.

3-The result in the end is ok, its going to be green, then back to red but most importantly its going to be back in one piece soon!

I know this is going to run on and on (sutherlandgate? anyone:biggrin1 but how about we (as a group of mutual interest) just take what we can from this and move on. Going over the same ground and nit picking at what happened where and when and how is not going to change the situation and will in the end just lead to more bitterness and rumour- which will never be constructive.

Anyhow- thats my threepennies worth, feel free to tear it apart!


Chris

 

I think this sums it up nicely.

 

Very well said on all counts.

 

Well said. I agree with that. But vote rigging is well out of order.

 

Can I just add, because I forgot to yesterday:

That's a point of view I hadn't considered and I think that's a very well made point. It doesn't make what they did any less wrong, in my view, but I can understand why they did it, if this was the case, and see the positive motives for doing as they did.

However, it pretty much cements my view that no supporters or previous volunteers associated with the trust should have been allowed to participate in the poll in the first place.

 

As I have already written - a "hands up - it won't happen again" will deal with the issues and then we can all move on.


A hands in the pockets silent sulk in the corner won't.


Its all out in the open, now, so an honest "let's deal with it" would be a sensible gesture - and if they want money for a blue interval - and there was plenty of interest in that - I'm sure that a straightforward appeal for a stint in that colour would be well met. Follow it up with red in B R guise and then revert to L.M.S. and you have historical portrayal, changing public images for the business, for the fotters, and interest for the observers and passengers.

 

I was surprised to note that their website still does not carry a statement regarding this, refuting it or acknowledging with an apology.

 

We've had that Ralph - and unless you polished it at every lamp post it didn't appeal to me

 

Having read the article in Steam Railway about the poll on 6233's livery and the possible manipulation of the block votes a thought struck me. Next June will be the tenth anniversary of 6233 hauling the Royal Train in North Wales. As it is the Queen's diamond jubilee in 2012 would the PRCLT prefer to have an LMS red Duchess again on any possible re-run, rather than a green 46233? I'm all for BR green by the way, as I remember from the Edge Hill days in the 60s, but just love to see the loco whatever the colour.

W

 

Another update. 6233 Overhaul Looks like they're not showing the whole loco pending a big exclusive in one of the mags.

 

I've just looked - where does it say that? Last set of photographs shows the locomotive is (19th November) still mostly in undercoat stage.

 

Even from the viewing balcony you struggle to get the whole loco in unless your able to pull back to about 18mm.

 

6233 Overhaul few more pics from the weekend


Opps this has already been posted, sorry

 

According to UK Steam, the loaded test run is provisionally 28th March 2012, Crewe-Derby-Crewe UK mainline steam rail tours 2012

 

Thought some of you might want to see Frank Richards and Marcello Jinty Gabrielli's Pictures of 6233