If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

46233 to York: 10/12/16

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by LMarsh1987, Dec 9, 2016.

Page 4 of 8
  1. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,546
    Likes Received:
    181
    Occupation:
    Rolling Stock Engineer
    Location:
    Kent
    Spoke too soon there Peter - 105L at Retford. Wonder what happened between there and Loversall Carr Jn?

    Regards,

    Dan
     
    Dan Hamblin, Dec 10, 2016
    #61
  2. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,153
    Likes Received:
    20,798
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    After recovering to 77 late at Loversall Carr, she's dropped back to 105 down at Retford according to RTT. Let's hope there's scope for recovery in the water stop.
     
    Spamcan81, Dec 10, 2016
    #62
  3. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,626
    Likes Received:
    537
    Location:
    Swanage
    Ah well, I suppose it was too good to last.
    As you say, 1Z36 arrived at Retford Platform 1 at 18:29 [105L] - presumably water stop and pathing (but originally scheduled by NR to take 48 minutes).
     
    buzby2, Dec 10, 2016
    #63
  4. Keith Morris

    Keith Morris New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Iver
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looped for op reasons!
     
    Keith Morris, Dec 10, 2016
    #64
    Sheff likes this.
  5. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,590
    Likes Received:
    2,392
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Where's the A1 when you need one? ;)
     
    Sheff, Dec 10, 2016
    #65
  6. bgrey62253

    bgrey62253 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    14
    Inside at ranskill
     
    bgrey62253, Dec 10, 2016
    #66
  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,153
    Likes Received:
    20,798
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    A quick splash and a dash and she's away from Retford 81 late. Quick work by the support crew there.
     
    Spamcan81, Dec 10, 2016
    #67
  8. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,206
    Likes Received:
    2,072
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Hilton, Derby
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    We tend to forget that, despite their power, the big Pacifics have less adhesion than a Class 20.
     
    John Stewart, Dec 10, 2016
    #68
  9. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,626
    Likes Received:
    537
    Location:
    Swanage
    buzby2, Dec 10, 2016
    #69
  10. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,153
    Likes Received:
    20,798
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    67 late at Claypole so clawing back the deficit.
     
    Spamcan81, Dec 10, 2016
    #70
  11. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    8,261
    Likes Received:
    5,273
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    Not drivel IMHO ! The punters have paid for a day out which has been reduced because certain parties don't want the presence of a diesel at the rear. In the conditions of TDMR (Today's Modern Railway) I consider that diesel on the rear as insurance so if the steam loco has a problem - and the greasy rail on the Hertford Loop seems to have been a problem - the assistance is readily available to reduce delays. I accept that some charter participants may wish not to have this but - accepting that insurance is a cost that one pays to reduce the potential cost should incidents occur - any effort that can reduce costs whilst helping reduce costly delays must surely be the lesser of 2 evils.

    Given the delays incurred by today's charter it would be interesting to know (a) what delays were incurred (b) what was the total cost (c) whose is liable to pay and (d) to whom; it would then be interesting to know (a) what would have been the extra cost of providing a diesel on the rear and (b) what reduction in delay cost would have accrued. Whilst I value steam haulage I also note the rising cost of charter fares; in the last month I have seen the Tin Bath rise from £69:00 in November 2015 to £109:00 in November 2016 and a Southport - Edinburgh charter (dining service) rise from £169:00 to £199:00. I consider that some of that reflects increased costs incurred by charter operators seeking to pass on some of the additional expense caused by charter delays but which can be reduced by the availability rear-end assistance. My fear is that delay costs could reach the point where either Network Rail restricts steam operation to specific routes in specific weather conditions or charter operators elect not to continue main line operation to avoid the increasing level of hasslement that the operation of steam traction on the main line generates.
     
    Fred Kerr, Dec 10, 2016
    #71
  12. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,153
    Likes Received:
    20,798
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Are you trying to say that the NP "I don't like boxes on the Back" brigade are responsible for the 47 not assisting northbound today? NR were obviously happy for it to stay behind and you may like to note that it followed 46233 rather than shove it.
     
    Spamcan81, Dec 10, 2016
    #72
    stan the man and 60017 like this.
  13. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,890
    Likes Received:
    3,616
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    TBC
    Location:
    Birmingham & Arley
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Stormed through a wet Newark station out of nowhere ! I was expecting it a bit later but Luckily I checked RTT in the nick of time and just about got my camera on my tripod.
     
    LMarsh1987, Dec 10, 2016
    #73
  14. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,997
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    Occupation:
    A Thingy...
    *Speculation alert* I wonder if the shunting from the rear by a diesel had any influence on the buckeye failure? Years of violent movement would probably take its toll eventually. Might also be an issue with HST rakes.

    I've noticed that WCRC are really going for a Pullman makeover. Never seen 'Tanzanite' before Thursday's trip (presumably a new name to follow the precious stone theme), so hopefully more will be repainted over time. Also noticed that they had added a generator car to the consist for ETH. So providing it works (was informed by friends of mine on the tour that it conked out), then a diesel in the consist would be for operational reasons.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
    Bulleid Pacific, Dec 10, 2016
    #74
  15. JDTTRAINS

    JDTTRAINS Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    520
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Station Team Leader, Thameslink
    Location:
    Bedfordshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    In Peterborough platform 3, arrived 50 down.

    And out, 37 down!
     
    JDTTRAINS, Dec 10, 2016
    #75
    stan the man likes this.
  16. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,154
    Likes Received:
    20,940
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Fred. I don't usually take issue with what you say simply because I assume that someone who writes for a heritage magazine seldom talks drivel otherwise they wouldn't last long in print. But that post was drivel.

    The fact that "certain parties don't want the presence of a diesel " had nothing to do with it. West Coast will have decided that the additional cost of sending a diesel plus the associated driver's hours was not necessary. But Network Rail had a problem and tried to keep the network running by sending steam via Hertford North and probably held the charter at Alexandra Park before releasing it up the flyover. The rest we know.

    As for the rising costs of charters. Put that down to the increasing cost of overheads such as decent coal, amongst other things, plus the understandable extra caution on train lengths - guidance that was put together by industry experts who know what they are talking about.
     
    Big Al, Dec 10, 2016
    #76
    35B, stan the man, Jamessquared and 7 others like this.
  17. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,626
    Likes Received:
    537
    Location:
    Swanage
    On-the-day specifics -
    If the stock was (allegedly) the wrong way round at Southall then the delayed KX departure would be down to the train operator I suspect.
    Subsequent delay minutes claims would be down to NR - OHLE wires down around Stevenage area I've heard.
    Apparently the crew signed the Hertford Loop and, as mentioned above, NR agreed to divert the train to circumvent the problem.
    However, 46233 was unable to master the combined curvature [sharpish 's' bend] and gradient up the the flyover opposite Bounds Green Depot. There are some interesting aerial shots on: http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/haringey-aerial.html [AWJXJ2 (RM) and AWJXJ8 (RM) show it quite well].
    By the time WCR's diesel arrived, and arrangements made to set-back/pull back to provide a 'shove' the ECML had re-opened so the Duchess set off Down the main as originally scheduled.
    The next ECML delay payments committee meeting will have a fine time negotiating this one I suspect.
     
    buzby2, Dec 10, 2016
    #77
  18. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,154
    Likes Received:
    20,940
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Just for the record. If RTT is to be believed then the Duchess ran from Retford to Peterborough in about even time..and FL down Stoke.
     
    Big Al, Dec 10, 2016
    #78
  19. Chris_Sav

    Chris_Sav Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Out To Pasture
    Location:
    Great Mongeham
    Looks like she's been looped for a couple of 125's coming up behind, was doing so well but hope it's not the hour on the schedule!
     
    Chris_Sav, Dec 10, 2016
    #79
  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,153
    Likes Received:
    20,798
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Opentraintime's "moving map" showed her on the main all the way.
     
    Spamcan81, Dec 10, 2016
    #80
Page 4 of 8

Share This Page