If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

46233 to York: 10/12/16

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by LMarsh1987, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,068
    Likes Received:
    20,778
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Water stop at Connington.
     
  2. JDTTRAINS

    JDTTRAINS Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    520
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Station Team Leader, Thameslink
    Location:
    Bedfordshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
  3. The Man

    The Man New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    442
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Railwayman
    Location:
    RUGBY
    The one good thing about a crap schedule is that it gives you a chance to make up time!
     
    Paul42 likes this.
  4. Dobbs0054

    Dobbs0054 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    520
    Gender:
    Male
    Fred Kerr at #71 are you reading this??? Or do you have more drivel to spout???
     
    stan the man likes this.
  5. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    534
    Location:
    Swanage
    Open Train times map shows 46233 let out in front of 1A96.
    The turn-in to the slow at Huntingdon is still apprach-controlled, I think, so that might not be helpful.
    Let's hope it hasn't delayed it by much if at all.
    UPDATE
    Unfortunately it might be delaying the 20:16 to KX [calling at most shacks]. This left Peterborough around 16 late but arrived at Huntingdon around 19 late after 46233 cleared the platform. I suspect the 321 (?) might end up chasing Yellows until the Duchess gets into it's stride - with or without 'shovage'.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  6. Keith Morris

    Keith Morris New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Iver
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Smart run down Stoke bank and quick water stop- now only a couple of mins down into Huntingdon!
     
  7. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    5,922
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    RTT states on time.

    Edit - Now states 2L
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  8. Keith Morris

    Keith Morris New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Iver
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Was the 10mph restriction at Ali Pally onto the slow line did for her - no chance to get a run at the flyover -IMO rail condition was very poor- greasy with lots of lovely drizzle
     
  9. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    5,922
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    Now ahead of an all stations stopper that should have been ahead of her. The stopper left Peterborough 16 late.
     
  10. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,319
    Likes Received:
    16,398
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The delay was nothing to do with the loco or the TOC, it was down to some bonehead in NR who thought it was a good idea to send it over the flyover to the Hertford line with poor rail conditions from a standing start at Alexandra Palace.
     
    stan the man, al4466 and 60017 like this.
  11. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,068
    Likes Received:
    20,778
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Let's just pause on this one for a moment.

    Network Rail planners in Milton Keynes provide an appalling path back from York to Finsbury Park - six and a half hours. On the day, the controllers manage to slot this charter into a path that allows the charter to pick up 90 minutes and get on time by Huntingdon with the prospect of the return taking only five hours. Assuming that the final leg runs ok that does beg a question.

    Why on earth couldn't the planners have done this in the first place? No doubt the answer may be that the running of other services today allowed them to do what they did. Yes, there do seem to be a few services running late but I don't know about you. I reckon that what NR has been able to do with this charter is pretty slick and deserves credit that they probably won't get from anyone (except perhaps WC).

    Well done Network Rail.
     
    alastair, Paul42 and al4466 like this.
  12. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    534
    Location:
    Swanage
    Don't know about the current speed restriction status.
    According to Realtime Trains 46233 was on the Down Fast at Finsbury Park and appears to have been block-to-block with everything else having to go via Hertford.
    I think the turn-in to the Down Slow, and then to Down Hertford, at Ally Pally was only 25mph [FCC route knowledge now over 10 years out-of-date]. If so, she would not have the chance of a 'run' at gradient.
    If, as you say, rail conditions were not at their best then I can quite understand why she couldn't make the climb.
    P.S. Now apparently 'storming' along the Up Slow passing Sandy 1L.
     
  13. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    534
    Location:
    Swanage
    Passed Digswell Junction 7L but recovery time means it is now just 1L at WGC.
    Catching up with the 21:33 WGC to Moorgate stopper (as scheduled).
    So a slow trundle - unless KX can find a path onto the Up Fast for 46233 after the 20:46 P'boro to KX has gone through Potters Bar perhaps.
     
  14. A1X

    A1X Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes Received:
    1,158
    Occupation:
    Insurance
    Location:
    Good Old Sussex by the Sea
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I think today indicates an element of "sod's law" on the diesel issue TBH, and I can see both sides of this from Fred and the others. Diesels on the back are a regular feature and more tours have them these days than don't. Now, how many of those actually require them I doubt we'll ever really know, but it is unfortunate that on a fairly rare opportunity for a fast main line operation without one, circumstances have dictated that one would have been a good idea to bring along. Meanwhile, Braunton had one tacked on the back doing very little the times I saw it. Had the issues at Stevenage not happened, the discussion would likely never have come up, it's just unfortunate. I doubt the weather conditions helped either if they were anything like they were in south London.

    One thing I will say is I doubt it will make much difference in the immediate future to the current status quo, other than maybe a weather condition related element. NR can hardly turn around and say it's the fault of the diesel not being there when it was a bit of their own infrastructure falling out of the sky which caused the bulk of the problems, and as the Duchess has been proving she's more than capable of doing the business on her booked route.
     
  15. buzby2

    buzby2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    534
    Location:
    Swanage
    Sheff and Victor like this.
  16. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,319
    Likes Received:
    16,398
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    34046 had a mostly MK2 set so presumably the box wasn't needed to provide ETH
     
  17. Keith Morris

    Keith Morris New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Iver
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    At the end of the day all parties did a good job of keeping the punters happy- (which was pays the bills) in very difficult circumstances -reasonable amount of time at York and a right time arrival back despite the late start. Well done- a satisfied customer
     
    Spamcan81, Sheff and Victor like this.
  18. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    8,239
    Likes Received:
    5,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport

    I understand that this is a complex area of concern both for the passengers - some of whom will not travel if a diesel forms part of the consist - and the operating authorities who seek to minimise delays whilst satisfying the demands of train operators. Agreed that in this case it was the unfortunate incident that caused the need to divert after the assumption that a straight run up the ECML would not need a rear end assistant. My point however is that - had the rear end assistance been implemented it would have been immediately available in case of problem (which the diversion certainly created) although it would have been hoped at the time of departure that its presence would be unnecessary. Agreed that the problem was Network Rail's in the first instance but had the decision been taken to provide rear-end assistance, the charter's contribution to the ensuing problems would have been much less. I accept I am in the minority but I am increasingly of the opinion that steam traction on the main line has to accept limitations for future running whether that be the WCRC practice of providing a rear-end diesel for steam travel or adopt the Vintage Trains option of reducing loads to meet the conditions of route and motive power - a policy which I understand Network Rail has finally understood in its proposals to introduce Load Tables for steam traction over Network Routes. The decision on which path to take will obviously need to be negotiated with the parties concerned.

    In the meantime the question of rear end assistance is analogous to the question of domestic insurances. It comes at an expense that you wonder if it is worth the cost; you hope you never need it and when not used for a while consider whether to dispel with it and then when the hazardous event occurs you hope your decisions have been the right ones. For today's passengers behind the Duchess the costs have been a reduced time in York and - as I write - the uncertainty of how late the train will be on its arrival in London but will today's experience influence their future decisions regarding joining steam tours; I would be interested to hear their view on the subject.

    EDIT : I am pleased to read that 46233 attained a right time arrival back in London (at the Cross ?) but that still leaves the policies surrounding steam traction operations on the main line subject to concern and a more rational policy to be formulated rather than the "try and see if it works" principle that I feel is the basis of the current policy.
     
  19. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    351
    My God.
    upload_2016-12-11_0-0-57.png
     
    Dobbs0054, Spamcan81 and Johnb like this.
  20. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    8,239
    Likes Received:
    5,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    As one who has supported steam charters since travelling behind 4498 through the Tyne Valley in 1972 when the steam ban was first relaxed and continues to enjoy the charter tours I feel that my concerns are shared by others; they may be drivel to you but I ask how much experience you have of travelling by steam-hauled charters to consider yourself an expert ? I do not consider myself an expert but I do consider myself sufficiently qualified to raise legitimate points which others have also raised in respect of steam traction on the main line.

    A point of interest from today for example - was the regained time due to slack timetabling (Network Rail's responsibility) or superb enginemanship (credit to the crews) or Network Rail staff on the ground taking decisions in the light of the current state of operations (credit to them) ? I cannot say but then - can you ?
     

Share This Page