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4920 Dumbleton Hall

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by david1984, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Sorry but that's just silly thinking,
     
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  2. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    You should see some of the "theories" about the future of 4920 I found on the web last night.... Blimey

    Sent from my XQ-BT52 using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    ;):(:):);););)
    Yes; some chap even suggested that the rear had been chopped off to make a County 4-4-0. That’s obviously wrong as you would have to cut out the bit between the middle drivers and the cylinders to make it correct. ;)
     
  4. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Oh, I don't know - does it really need a firebox?;)

    Peter
     
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  5. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    Not when you put immersion heaters in the boiler barrel and batteries in the tender.....:eek:
     
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  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not if it’s just a static exhibit …

    Just a thought - maybe the missing fifty tons is a longutudinal slice and only the left-hand side of the loco exists, since if you stick it up against a wall, only one side can be seen anyway. Saves space and weight …

    Tom
     
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  7. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sent from my XQ-BT52 using Tapatalk
     
  8. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

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    I was speaking to my brother, who lives in Japan the other day about this, and he suggested a possible reason for using an actual Hall rather than a replica. Essentially, the image of rural arcadian England - countryside, the village green, little cottages, vicars on bikes, all that - is a big thing in certain parts of Japanese society, they love it. It's why there's Japanese signage in the Lake District near Beatrix Potter's house. He reckoned an actual artifact linked to that image of England would be a bigger draw than Harry Potter alone.
     
  9. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    I can see some merit in your theory Martin.
    However, why would WCR invest £300k+ (if the rumours are to be believed) in a loco, only to ship it to Japan for X number of years and when (if) it was to return to the UK, WCR have no operational use for it anyway? That's a lot of capital to tie up for an unknown period of time.
     
  10. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Not only that, but why would you get rid of parts if that was the ultimate intention?
     
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  11. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    There exists a replica of Hill Top in Japan and it can be found in Saitama Children's Zoo which is about one hour from Tokyo. In the aftermath of WW2 it was felt to be necessary to address the problems brought into play by Japan's insularity and in order to do this the Beatrix Potter books were used as a means to teach the English language. The books had already been translated into Japanese in 1917 and had proved very popular not only as a source of entertainment for children but also for the teaching of English. MacArthur is credited with introducing a program to make use of these already respected works and push the teaching of English as a form of social reprogramming as it were.
    There might have been some resentment at this but the works had an advantage of already being well appreciated. Peter Rabbit simply appears to resonate with the Japanese, this is by far the most popular character. The recreation of Hill Top in Japan was built in 2006 and is built as a modern museum (earthquake proof too!) but it is remarkably similar to the original and they put a great deal of effort into making it that way with visits to the original and importing materials from the UK.
    With this in mind if you were going to produce a replica of anything for the Japanese it would be very costly to meet their standards, it might be cheaper to find an original if that were possible.
     
  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Maybe it hasn’t gone at all, maybe it’s a replica that’s gone and the real 4920’s in the massive Thunderbird 2 hanger that’s under 10A ;) (you know that one with all those Granges and Blue Pullmans went) My guess is it’s part of a new ‘strategic reserve’
    I best not think about it too much now because after having my 2 jabs and my Booster, Bill and Melinda gates are reading my thoughts.
    I know too much…:);)
     
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  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    There is a broader point in all of this and it relates to the soul of the movement

    locomotives were bought by enthusiasts , individually , collectively, appeals , shares , second hand items sales, raffles all contributing to restoration, same for coaches , stations, the railways themselves . this was a hobby where no matter how little you had , you could play your part . Marriages were at times sacrificed for engines , i'm sure a few homes went the same way .

    Now the movement is becoming a haven for the wealthy to play in . some would call it philanthrophy, some pursue the money with zeal as being the saviour . Loco's, coaches, wagons for sale to the highest bidder , little or no concern to its heritage nor what and most importantly the endeavours that went into it . A coach body that could be a schemes carriage is now someone elses glamping pod at an elevated premium . Heritage has to be commercial to survive but a pragmatic commercial that still nurtures its soul
     
  14. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member

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    Very much like football at the top level really.
     
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  15. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Rather depends what the rate of return is doesn't it, but as it stands no one has a clue who bought her from Devon, who owns here now, the terms of any move to japan, the duration of any move to Japan, whether or not any material was removed prior to the movement to Japan.

    £300k is not a lot is you are leasing her on for £50k a year or have sold her for £600k
     
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  16. Kylchap

    Kylchap Member

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    This is a very astute analysis and has happened in many other fields of our culture. When I were a lad, I had a passion for British sports cars. Old MGs, Triumphs, Healeys, even tatty E-Types were within reach for the enthusiast on a modest income. Purchase was followed by a few years of loving restoration. Then it all changed. Classic cars became fashionable and were bought up as investments by speculators. Now it's a soulless field of over-restored cars locked up in heated garages and taken to shows on trailers.

    A similar change has affected the restoration and operation of steam locomotives. Gone are the days when a group of old boys with long memories, a lathe and welding gear could beaver away in an old workshop to rebuild a tank loco.
     
  17. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member

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    Excellent analysis Kylchap. I was keen on old Fords and they used to be easily within reach of working class enthusiasts and they were also simple to work on, I spent a few years renovating a mark 2 Cortina, but sadly had to sell it about 4 years ago.

    looking now at the prices for even poor examples, they are now going for silly money and are no longer affordable
     
  18. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I once owned a Cortina 2000E,bought as a project, If I had it still now, I bet I could double, or triple what I paid for it, :( classic cars are now unaffordable.
     
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  19. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    A guy at work bought a wreck of a Triumph TR7 a few years ago with the intention of doing it up. He's rebuilt plenty of cars and bikes, so he knows what he's doing. He didn't have the time to do much more than get the engine running on it, so sold it after about 18 months. Got double what he paid for it! It's crazy the way the market has gone.
     
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  20. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 New Member

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    While that is all perfectly true (see for instance the Shuzenji Romney Railway), marketing 4920 as an authentic British artifact would seem to necessitate admitting that it never appeared in the HP films, which seems unlikely.
     
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