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5080 "Defiant" - GWR Castle Class

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by sir gomer, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. sir gomer

    sir gomer New Member

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    Interesting and very positive information on the Vintage Trains website about a possible chance for 5080 "Defiant" :)

    http://www.vintagetrains.co.uk/defiantpreview/
     
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  2. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Some interesting points that caught my eye:

    1. I thought 5593 was supposed to be next in the queue?
    2. They are classing it as a contract overhaul (to themselves).
    3. Cost of £1m is rather eyewatering, especially to raise by public appeal.

    Keith
     
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  3. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Plus do they need three Castles, when the only one that is currently operational barely does more than a dozen trips a year?
     
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  4. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    I've seen much criticism elsewhere about steam tours not running. I suspect you need three locomotives at a bare minimum to run a service: One to fail the OTMR, one to take over and one to be in overhaul.
     
  5. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Looks like that "Bloomer" will be even more on the back burner now!
    It looks like it could be a race between 7027 and 5080, anyone want to open a book?
     
  6. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Has anyone from 7029/ Vintage Trains come out and said 5593 would be next in line? The only thing I can think of saying anything like that was a piece in Steam Railway a few years ago when young Mr Meanley said something like if it was up to him, 5593 would be restored next.
     
  7. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    What is this 'shareholder' business all about? It appears to be a share of ........ nothing much really. The loco will continue to be controlled by the existing charity. A new company is being set up but these 'shareholdings' will effectively be donations since they will carry no voting rights and will not be tradable. Really it's a club membership with a few jollys in return for a £1k donation (which will be eligible for gift aid). Sadly I can't afford it but would be happy to give a smaller donation to the Bloomer fund (if there was one) and ask for nothing in return other than the prospect of seeing the thing completed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  8. mike1522

    mike1522 Long Time Member Friend

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    For 2017 I think Tyseley has an excellent start 2 tours with 4965, 2 tours with 5043 and the Shakespeare Season already announced. I just hope that if it is the plan to have 5080 following 7029 in the restoration shops that 5043 shall not be sidelined.
     
  9. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Isn't that really true of every steam loco owning company? I am under no illusions that the shares I hold in a loco company are in practical terms anything other than a form of life membership... certainly not under the illusion that they have any real value.
     
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  10. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    But what's to say that the next VT overhaul isn't 5593?

    My reading of it was that it was a contract overhaul, commissioned by a limited company with a clever financing scheme. If you think about it it is a good way of going about things as it is not financed by VT funds so also doesn't have a direct drain on them freeing that up for other projects. I think it's a good idea.
     
  11. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Yes, but I wonder why a charity feels the need to dress it up in this way when they already are a charity that people can donate to. Is it something about the psychology of rich donors who may feel it is somehow better to 'buy' something (even though they're not really) rather than 'donate' ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  12. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    If you really were buying shares in a loco, wouldn't you be liable for a share of the rather large costs involved forever?
     
  13. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I am always happy to see a plan in place for another locomotive to be returned to service. Have to wonder how much work there would be out there for it though.
     
  14. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Didn't the appeal for 7029 launch just after 5043 was restored? So maybe this is being launched with an eye to having something ready for early in the next decade?
     
  15. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    The page does say that "By 2017 we will have restored Clun Castle, Earl of Mount Edgcumbe, Rood Ashton Hall, 7752 and 9600 in accordance with our policy and Vintage Trains will maintain them. Next we wish to repair Defiant so she too can rejoin the operational fleet on the same basis to provide more resilence, enable us to grow our activities and use an authentic Great Western express engine on the main line." (My highlighting)

    Also, when 7027 was solde to Mr Jones-Pratt who has contracted Tyseley to restore the engine, I'm sure I read somewhere a comment from Michael Whitehouse about looking forward to seeing four Castles in steam around the Tyseley turntable. This also suggests that Defiant could be in front of Kolhapur in the overhaul queue. Still, if anyone wants a definitive statement, Ben at VT is very obliging and helpful. I'm sure he would answer any questions regarding possible confusion over Tyseley's future plans.

    While the 1950s modifications mean that 5043 and 7029 will always have that bit extra, 5029 (and hopefully 4079) will hopefully be working again before too long just to remind us that the original single-chimney Castles as built by the Great Western were no sluggards. I'll never forget 5043's amazing display of both power and high speed running on the Cheltenham Flyer three years ago, but a trip behind 5029 back in 1996 with steam from Westbury to Plymouth also sticks in my memory as a very impressive performance. 5080, we can be sure, won't disappoint.
     
  16. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    That's the point I'm trying to make John, I haven't seen anything official saying '5593 will be the next steam loco we restore' from Tyseley. And knowing how some people start frothing on here... :confused::confused: I just thought I'd make that point!
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  17. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    DSC07614 - Copy.JPG I saw 5080 at Quainton last year and at the time wondered how long it would be before she was overhauled.... good news that she's on the way back!

    I never realised that the first Castle to be withdrawn went before the last was built!
     
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  18. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, though strictly speaking it was a rebuilt 'Star'.
     
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  19. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    I think that was an accounting procedure though. It's likely to have been mostly new as 111 Viscount Churchill was.
     
  20. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    Matt, I guess that the talk about 5593 may have originated someone assuming that with one working Castle and another under overhaul, it would add a bit of variety to restore Kolhapur rather than work on a third Castle - in other words, trying to second-guess the plans at Tyseley, making what is not an unreasonable assumption but getting it wrong. Still, if Tyseley's announcement may seem a bit disappointing for Jubilee fans, there's 45596 to look forward to before too long.
     
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