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5952 Cogan Hall

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by paullad1984, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. KHARDS

    KHARDS New Member

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    Errr......in front of a computer?
    With 6880 to be completed, 5199 to overhaul, 5952 potentially missing a tender, boiler and bogie, I would be amazed if 5952 steams before 2025.
    Cant wait for Quentin, Will and team to prove me wrong......
     
  2. 6880rules

    6880rules New Member

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    Hi Khards

    We understand your concern

    So here goes

    6880
    is a project in its own right, the misson being to build the 81st Grange within a timeframe that contributors will see 6880 run I would dearly love to put a date on it maybe with the aqusition of 5952 we could do that but even then there is no guaruntee, what we are keen to stick to are the core values of the project reasonable timeframe and cost ,so far we think we acheiving this ,despite two Galas that incidently have gone along way towards the purchse of 5952.
    As i said before the purchase of 5952 and parts has taken away at least five years off the building of 6880 also from what i know is bubbling away in the background twelve months from now should prove to be groundbreaking with many milestones and firsts in preservation achieved.

    5199
    again a project in its own right, the bottom end is in good order as we took or were forced to retyre her before her trip to the Bluebell in 2008 since then she has run at the CVR then SSS2 followed by some work at Llangolllen then back to the CVR for long term hire possibly into 2011 or the end of her ten years in 2013
    Plans are already in hand to safeguard and avoid the no money for overhaul we see so often expect a quickj turnaround
    Incidently there is a program of work to be done set up with the CVR to keep her in good order

    5952
    As of now the intention is to put 5952 on the back burner with a policy of anypart that we can practically use will be donated to 6880 to speed up the build so yes the bogie will get used but it would not be practical to use the hornguides etc etc
    As with any project policy can change but for now this is the way we see it

    May i remind you that despite the same people being involved 6880/5952 are a seperate organisation to 5199 as we have no wish for the running and finance of 5199 to be interfered with

    Thanks for your concern

    See you at the CVR Gala
     
  3. lil Bear

    lil Bear Well-Known Member

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    Request for Information

    Yes as Will says 5199 and 6880 are two separate groups.

    The 5199 Project Group is the group who maintains 5199.

    The 6880 Society is the group who are building 6880 and have just purchased 5952.

    Where the confusion arises is that some of the 6880 members are also members of 5199. After completion of 5199's restoration, some of her restorers formed a new group, the 6880 Society, but not everyone from 5199 followed.
    With the relationship the 2 groups have though through these members, 6880 members have helped out with 5199 in the past, even if they are not part of 5199 Group. Hope that clears it up slightly.


    Now though I have a request. Can anybody help me with the History of 5952? Mainly interested in information from GWR / BR days but if you have info on her preservation I wouldn't mind seeing it too. Below is what I have so far;
    Please either reply on here or pm me if you are able to help. Thanks in Advance
     
  4. Broomhalla

    Broomhalla New Member

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    I've found her shed allocations.
    1948 OLD OAK COMMON
    1950 OLD OAK COMMON
    1951 SOUTHALL
    1952 SOUTHALL
    1955 PENZANCE
    1959 WORCESTER
    1960 HEREFORD
    1962 HEREFORD
    1963 HEREFORD
     
  5. RA & FC

    RA & FC Member

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    Taken from Llangollen Railway stock book 2nd Edition (1990). (Back in the day when there were 3 Manors at Llan!!)

    1935 - 1939 = Penzance
    1939 - 1945 = Cardiff Canton
    1945 - 1950 = Old Oak Common
    1950 - 1955 = Southall
    1955 = Plymouth Laira
    1955 - 1963 = Worcester
    1963 - 1965 = Cardiff East Dock

    Purchased from Woodhams in 1981 and moved to Toddington. Moved to Llangollen in June 1989.
     
  6. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    It would be good to have a crystal ball here - why? - to see whether the eventual restoration of 5952 is ever actually achieved following the expediency of plundering the Hall to complete 6880. If the restoration IS a real intention which ACTUALLY comes to fruition then fine!

    If the claim that it is easier to raise money for 6880 than the restoration of another Hall is well founded then - oh dear - all those parts taken from the Hall are going to be even harder to fund the replacement of than if they were commissioned as part of the 6880 build. This sort of thing makes the plan start to look flawed at best or misrepresented at worst.

    I don't think I am alone in thinking that the loss of both 7927 & 5952 to build a Grange is simply a price to high to pay for the result (and yes I know that 1014 received parts also).
     
  7. 6880rules

    6880rules New Member

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    A Crystal ball.............blimey think where the preservation movement would be with one of those at your disposal

    Who had a Crystal ball when 6430 was broken up for parts......no one ,....!and there was less on 6430 than there will be on 5952

    Never say never in this buisness

    If anyone wishes to take on 5952 sooner than the 6880 society intend to then please contact us theres always a deal to be done somwhere

    That includes you MR 1472 ....if you care about 5952 that much feel free to crack on with it
     
  8. Broomhalla

    Broomhalla New Member

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    nothing happened here.
     
  9. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Member

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    A little more detail:
    ???-45 to Old Oak Common (OOC, 81A)
    Oct-50 to Southall (81C)
    Dec-54 to Penzance (83G)
    Jul-55 to Laira (83D)
    Sep-55 to Worcester (85A)
    Aug-59 to Hereford (85C)
    Nov-63 to Cardiff East Dock (88A)
    May-65 Withdrawn
    Jun-65 to Woodhams Barry
     
  10. lil Bear

    lil Bear Well-Known Member

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    We know there are those who are going to be skeptical of us following the dismantling of 7927. There is nothing we can do to prevent this. You will simply have to trust us .

    However we have made a promise to ensure that 5952 has a secure future, and I doubt Ken Ryder would have sold her to us if he felt we were unable to meet this. There have already been several members (myself included) who have said that we do not want to see 5952 broken up, and that we see her as our next challenge once 6880 is complete. There are many of us 6880 people who have not tackled a Barry Wreck, 6880 is the first engine we have worked on, so it will be something slightly different for us but with the experience gained from building a new locomotive it should be slightly easier for us.

    It's upto you whether you believe us or not. But remember we are the 6880 Society. Nobody believed us when we said we were going to run Steel, Steam & Stars 1. We proved them wrong. Many people doubted us to make a success out of Steel, Steam & Stars 2. We proved them wrong too. There are still some people who doubt our ability to complete 6880. They will be proven wrong also. We are not afraid to achieve what others wouldn't dare attempt.
     
  11. lil Bear

    lil Bear Well-Known Member

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    Thanks GWR4090 plus Ash and Rossy. So the info I have so far is as follows:

    Dec-35 - ???-39 Penzance (83G)
    ???-39 to Cardiff Canton
    ???-45 to Old Oak Common (OOC, 81A)
    Oct-50 to Southall (81C)
    Dec-54 to Penzance (83G)
    Jul-55 to Laira (83D)
    Sep-55 to Worcester (85A)
    Aug-59 to Hereford (85C)
    Nov-63 to Cardiff East Dock (88A)
    May-65 Withdrawn
    Jun-65 to Woodhams Barry

    Anyone able to fill in the blanks ? Also what was the shed code for Cardiff ? Most of the info I had previously was from Wikipedia and the GWR website. Strange that the GWR especially has some of the dates wrong, if you look at my original post.
    http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_hal_hall59b.htm
     
  12. baldric

    baldric New Member

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  13. lil Bear

    lil Bear Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Baldric. Updated further. Anyone else able to clear it up any further. Also liveries, anyone know what guises she wore ? I'm guessing GWR and BR Green, any other colours. Black possibly ?
     
  14. Nick Gough

    Nick Gough Member

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    When first built 5952 would have been in green fully lined out (including cylinder covers, cab steps & vertical footplating) with the GWR 'shirtbutton' on the tender.
    By August 1943 it was in unlined black.
     
  15. Flange bandit!

    Flange bandit! New Member

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    Yea rock on mate, you just hit the nail on the head. Back off keyboard warriors or step up and help us with these projects and you will see that honesty and sincerity is at the heart of the 6880 group. No one is playing smoke and mirrors here. Oh and while im at it im not a member of 6880 but i do help out on events when im free. You should give these guys a chance instead of assuming stuff realy.
     
  16. lil Bear

    lil Bear Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be some confusion in her year of withdrawl. Primarily I've seen it being as above, but I have also found 2/3 reports that say she was withdrawn 1965 and moved to Barry '65 as well (months are still the same however). In addition I have 1 report of her being shedded at both Truro and St Blazey prior to 1945. Anyone able to clarify any of these points ?


    Also is there anyone else able to provide further information on livery and what year she gained a 4,000 gallon tender ?
     
  17. 73129

    73129 Member

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    Can anyone remember what condition 5952 was in at Barry compared to other GWR Halls? I only ask because reading SR she underwent a works overhaul six months before being withdrawal and would of made a good candidate for restoration in early days of preservation.

    Thanks
     
  18. baldric

    baldric New Member

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    Do you know what type of overhaul she went through? Don't forget in the early years engines may have not been picked because of what seems an easy job these days or because the stays on a boiler were smaller than another one. We know that 7202 had a heavy intermeddiate 18 months before withdrawal and an unclassified 6 months before, some of the parts it is obvious that hey were done, other parts are so worn out that nothing can have been done, the same could be true for this hall. With tyres needing turning and large stays why pick this hall. (I do not know what the condition is of the stays or tyres, just used as an example!)
     
  19. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Member

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    Some corrections to the shed codes:
    Hereford was 85C in Aug-59. The code changed to 86C in Jan-61
    Cardiff East Dock was 88A in Nov-63.
     
  20. Black Jim

    Black Jim New Member

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    Well done to you lads. The WSR had a look at her a while back , but decided to go for 'Dicheat', all I can say is there loss is your gain. A lot more work than we thought!
     

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