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6" X 10" cylinder patterns wanted for Hayling Steam Loco Project

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 4073, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. 4073

    4073 New Member

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    It is getting close to the time when the decision on how the cylinders are going to be made for the East Hayling Light Railway Society’s Steam Locomotive Project. The original idea was to fabricate the cylinders, but I am wondering is there any suitable pattern out there that have been used once maybe twice, that is just sitting on a shelf waiting for another use? Ok we may be lucky if we find one, but with the amount of rebuilt and new built projects that have been completed, it must be possible?

    This is not a detailed search (we know we can easily go to Alan Keefs'), just a feeler to see what is out there? The Bore is 6" and could be up to 7", and stroke is 10".

    I've attached below a couple of recent photos of the project. The first shows the frames after they have been move to allow more access around the machines.

    [​IMG]

    The second shows the bits that have made for the project, mostly for the motion.

    [​IMG]

    Thank you for your help.
     
  2. SillyBilly

    SillyBilly Member

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    I don't supose you can reduce the stroke by an inch, in which case Wren cylinders would be about right and either Hunslets or Kew will have a pattern for those I would've thought.
     
  3. pjm

    pjm New Member

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    just checked quarry hunslet would do the job so Hunslet would be a place to start but they will charge
     
  4. triassic

    triassic Member

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    Somewhere kicking around are a pair of Feldbahn cylinders, they sold on ebay a couple of years ago for about £100. Maybe you could track down the buyer.
    This is the first I`ve heard of this project, what are you building? A freelance design?
     
  5. SillyBilly

    SillyBilly Member

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    Problem is they have inside valve chests, this loco needs them on top of the cylinders.
     
  6. 4073

    4073 New Member

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    Thank you for your interest so far. As SillyBilly has spotted the loco has Hackworth Valve Gear and the Quarry Hunslet cylinders would be just right, if it were not for the inside valve chest. The loco has 2' wheels so that might just rule out the Wren cylinders. The Feldbahn cylinders sound interesting. A quick search came up with 9 1/2" x 9 1/2" from the Amerton website. I going down to Hayling today and I'll pass all this on to our steam engineer. Out of interest, does anyone know the size of the Corris No.7 Tattoo cylinders?

    For triassic, the loco is based on the 5" gauge Sweet Pea drawings. So that’s 5-1 scale! The project was started about 15 to 20 years ago to provide a steam loco for the new line at Hayling. Most of the construction was done around 10 years ago at the old line in Mill Rithe Holiday Camp. At the beginning of this decade, the project had to stop to allow the move of the railway to the seafront, with the machines and the frames of the loco move to a shed in north Hayling. A few years ago the project was restarted and the machines brought back into use. The society then decided to put all its' funds into the project as well as continuing to raise funds through the profit from the society run railway shop at Beachlands Station. The shop is very successful at raising funds for the loco and funds could be close the 3/4 mark of what is required.

    The work to build the loco is being kept in house as much as possible, with the total cost is predicted at £12k. What you can see in the two photos in my first post cost £750, although the material was brought 10 years back. This is a true 'built by men in a small shed project' that will see regular (Hayling Built!) steam return to Hayling!
     
  7. the tattoo cylinders are inclimed out with the port block at 45 degrees to the cylinder
     
  8. RGCorris

    RGCorris Member

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    Corris No.7

    They should be the same as Corris No.4, which are 7 1/8 x 12" according to http://www.talyllyn.co.uk/details/no-4

    The forthcoming Corris No.10 should be the same as No.3, viz. 7 1/4 x 12"

    Richard
     
  9. RGCorris

    RGCorris Member

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    Is it an optical illusion, or are the frames significantly offset from the centre, as evidenced by the buffer beams ?

    Richard
     
  10. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    If you have based it already on Sweet Pea then just working in the cylinders from another loco could be a bit of a problem. You might be better off fabricating them by welding. Just search on The Priest in 10 1/4" for some ideas.
     
  11. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    I am not sure if welded cylinders are a good idea if a circular firebox a la Bagnall is to be used. The small circular fireboxed Bagnall are tail heavy as it is.

    An extreme example of this was Trixie, an early "new build" which has ended up on the C.F. des Chanteraines in Paris. She had welded cylinders and at one of the places she was tried, her driver would demonstrate how tail heavy she was. Admittedly a very powerfully built man he would grasp hold of the front bufferbeam and lift the front wheels off the rails! A few lengths of rail later were gob welded onto the farmes in front of the smokebox to try and rectify matters.

    Paul H
     
  12. Richieboy

    Richieboy New Member

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    The FR seemed to have some sucess with fabricating cylinders for Blanche I think. That was to change her from slide valves to piston valves though as I understand it.

    Can't remember what size they are off the top of my head, its in a book somewhere round here!

    Good luck with it, a very commendable project indeed.

    Very interesting also to see what you can do with a lot of determination and skills.

    It seems to work out a lot cheaper than some of the restorations that have happend over the years!

    R.
     
  13. 4073

    4073 New Member

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    Thanks again for all your help. After speaking to our steam engineer when I was last down at Hayling, he says' the Wren cylinders are too small and the Feldbahn cylinders bore is too big.

    I'll mention the Corris cylinders when I down at Hayling this coming week. The wheel diameters are the same, so they could be close? Does the Corris Railway have the patterns? I'm not too sure where you are coming from RGCorris, with the position of the frames. If it's the position of the frame plates to the buffer beam, then yes it is an optical illusion, especially with all the bit place around it.

    For ilvaporista, as I mentioned in my first post, the original idea was to fabricate the cylinders and this thread is to see if there is any workable options out there. The Priest is a very good example and will certainly give us some ideas.

    For paulhitch, when we do get the loco running there will have to be modifications to sort out problems. Talyllyn was originally built as a 0-4-0 and we may have to follow the same route and add a trailing axle? Have a chat with our engineer when you are next down on the railway.

    Other steam news from Hayling, is steam haul trains are to return for 2010! They are pencilled in for the months of June and September 2010. I'll let you all know in a new thread when I get the full dates!
     
  14. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    For paulhitch, when we do get the loco running there will have to be modifications to sort out problems. Talyllyn was originally built as a 0-4-0 and we may have to follow the same route and add a trailing axle? Have a chat with our engineer when you are next down on the railway.

    I should have added that small Bagnalls have heavy cast smokebox saddles and cast chimneys as well. Alas the pattern for the cast chimneys carried by "Wendy" and "Armistice" was destroyed by fire and, sadly, the person who made it is now dead,

    Paul H
     
  15. Contact boston lodge they have a resident pattern maker whom has recenly completed a pattern for a monoblock cylinder for taliesin
     
  16. meeee

    meeee Member

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    They were fabricated by BR at Crewe. 4 were made and the best pair fitted to Blanche the others were for linda but they are still lying around somewhere. I think there were some issues with the second pair though. Blanche's cylinders are about 10.5" x 12" and still in good nick after nearly 40 years intensive service. Linda's on the other hand will need replacing in the not too distant future.
    Tim
     
  17. RGCorris

    RGCorris Member

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    The cylinders were fabricated rather than cast, but the cylinder bores were machined from a billet of SG iron and secured in the fabrication - to try to get the best of both worlds. So no patterns, I'm afraid.

    Richard
     
  18. 4073

    4073 New Member

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    Thanks for all the help received. I have compiled all the responses to take down to Hayling, which will help the society to decide in going down the cast of fabricated route.

    Thanks RGCorris for letting me know, I was looking at a copy of the Corris Tattoo Project Book in the Loston Bodge mess room trying to work it out. It's interesting to hear about the use of a billet of SG iron, something I'll discus with our steam engineer
     
  19. 4073

    4073 New Member

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    An article about the history of the East Hayling Light Railway Steam Loco Project and the progress so far that I have written, is in the latest issue of Narrow Gauge World (May/June 2010). Which also includes recent photos of the frames, with parts of the brake rigging and Hackwork valve gear in place showing their final place?

    Also in the article I am continuing the search for suitable cylinder patterns. Thank you for all the past responses, which have been past to our engineer, and to anyone new responding to the article.

    If you can't wait for steam to return to Hayling, [thread=22767]click here[/thread].
     

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