60010 Dominion of Canadas Neglect

It has always amused me that many of the A4s were named after graceful birds, then we have SEAGULL ... hmmmm!

 

60666 Dominion of Zimbabwe might need some holes welded over if it ever comes back.

 

Surely that would have been Rhodesia then?

 

Taking this further ... how did they select those that carried names of the commonwealth and why were others from the commonwealth not included?

 

If John Cameron had married a Canadian woman rather than a South African woman then maybe he would have done.

 

Thanks Martin, You learn something new everyday. Were they named for any particular duty?

Brian

 

Remember when these locos were named , the Commonwealth was a much more limited group of countries than it became after Indian independence and all that followed.

 

Re: 60010 Domion of Canadas Neglect

I went to Green Bay, where 60008 lives, ten years ago - actually on March 10th 1999 so almost ten years ago to the day.

The good and bad news is that she's pretty much welded to the rails and I doubt that they'll have moved her much in the intervening period. She's undercover, gathering dust, but I got a real sense that she's a popular attraction and that her custodians are pleased to have her there.

For the majority who have never experienced it you must understand that there is an enormous difference between the North American and European concepts of preservation.

60010 is actually in quite good condition compared to many seminal machines that are considered to be "preserved" elsewhere in North America.

Edit to clarify this point. Amtrak can't run a GG1 again, without the GG1 getting an unprototypical braking and cab system. That's quite a good job as all of the GG1's I've seen in alledged preservation in the US have been allowed to rot through to their frames. Preservation in North America means just that - it's preserved statically. There is very little concept of operational restoration.

 

Wouldn't that be a monarch out of step? Thought the A4s named after (at the time) Empire or Commonwealth countries were associated with the LNER's "Coronation" services, commemorating (as everyone else was doing at the time) the coronation of George VI. It would of course have made perfect sense to allocate them later on to the "Elizabethan" for similar reasons (but 60011 Empire of India's name would have been inaccurate [and potentially embarassing?] by that point).

 

Re: 60010 Domion of Canadas Neglect

Would be nice if CPR ran their 2816 over that part of the world , but it won't be for a while as it's out of traffic for 2009 & 2010 for 'maintenance' -- possibly you could read lack of finances or !
So we have the only steamable Royal ( or any ) Hudson in Canada for time present - hopefully things will change when economy picks up .

 

4 pages (and yes I know a fair few of the posts aren't directly related to 60010), yet only 2 people have noted that the article actually says a cosmetic restoration is planned by the museum...

 

People,

Don't get so het up about 60010 being overseas. I can say that there would have been at least one other in another country, Commonwaelth of Australia was offered & accepted, however that foundered on transport costs. The rest is, as they say, history.

Why shouldn't you get so bothered by 8 & 10 being outside the UK?

For starters, you've got four others. Besides completing the set, what could be gained by getting another two?

Leaving them in North America gives you people something to anticipate seeing if you're over there. How could you possibly refresh your senses in North America if both are back in the UK?

For education purposes, it would be better to leave them where they are. People visiting the custodial sites can appreciate these machines, especially when their relationship to Mallard is explained. "Wow, I saw a British engine that looks the same as the world speed record holder!!" Such an experience may cause some of teh visitors to look beyond their own backyard, make them think that there is a world beyond their borders. If that happens to 1% of teh visitors, it has to be a good thing.

These locomotives can also show people the different philosophies in railway engineering. The appearance of an A4 is startlingly different to anything left in North America. The corridor tenders are something not seen elsewhere too.

Leaving 8 & 10 in North America is good PR for the UK, something that I'm sure was a factor in the BRB/UK Govt decision to offer them in the first place. Let them create the urge for North Americans to come to the UK as tourists and spend their money there.

 

Re: 60010 Domion of Canadas Neglect

2816 visited Ontario in 2003 and 2004 IIRC, as i saw and shot it on both tours, should find the pictures and scan them, still shot film only back then!! (Seems so long ago!!). Is the WCRA still on for running trips between Whistler and Vancouver in a year as part of the Winter Olympics?

Yes, the concept of preservation in North America is very different, because we never had the culture of spotters and "anoraks" and everything else that made the UK steam scene spring to life in the 60's as the era ended. The massive distances and the rapid decline of steam on the North American network is not a directly comparable end of steam in the UK. A rural line in Canada and the US is really a rural line, abandoned lines in the time when the UK Heritage Railway world was born were really in the middle of nowhere, they wouldn't have survived, even if people there had wanted to save them and had the drive to save a steam engine and run it. The few preservation centres we do have though, work very very hard with very little to try and keep steam alive. Because the culture didn't exist, and because there was no equivalent of Barry in North America, there was no option to go back, those locomotives not donated to towns and plinthed or to the existing railway museums and private collections (ie Steamtown in the states which later became a National Museum in the US) were very quickly cutup by the railways.

As for our "alleged" preservation, we all have our faults, there are plenty of "allegedly" preserved locomotives in Britain too that are rusted through to their frames, the difference is there is a network and infrastructure to maybe give them new life there, its not easy to do in Canada and the US. Would i like to see more operational restoration, sure, but there is no where to run for most groups, the fight in Canada and the US to restore and operate with the only place for most to go is the mainline and the massive insurance costs which have stunted many groups operations in recent years is not easily overcome. Even the private railways and museums have struggled to find funds to complete restorations and keep steam alive, and given the current state of the economy, especially in the US, that will get worse before it gets better.

 

...but just think what we could do with 60008:

1. LNER 4496 "Sparrow Hawk" (originally intended name, but not carried)
2. LNER 4496 "Golden Shuttle" - Garter blue, single chimney, valances, guard irons
3. LNER 4496 "Golden Shuttle" - Wartime black, valances removed, LNER standard whistle, "LNER", later "NE" on tender
4. LNER 4496 "Dwight D Eisenhower" - As 2 but without valances, chime whistle
5. LNER 8 "Dwight D Eisenhower" - as 4
6. BR 60008 - as 5 - "British Railways" on tender
7. BR 60008 - BR blue
8. BR 60008 - BR green
9. BR 60008 - as 8 - Double Kylchap

...and several minor variations! I will not go into boiler changes, as on another thread!

Incidentally, I believe this one of Top Shed's favourite A4s.

Now back to 60010 - what happened to the bell?

 

I went to see 60010 a recently. Whilst the condition of the A4 isnt comparable to Mallard, it is non the less complete.

I did notice that it had recieved a bump from a buckeye coupling and a patch repair put on it (see 2nd picture, to the right of the buffer and before the letters "A4").

It is paired with Tender 5326. It is worth noting other items in their collection are outside,whilst the A4 is inside.
The pictures below are maybe a bit more honest.. it may be "dull" and unpolished, but it's by no means rotting away and it is it's original paint from the 1960s. I believe the connecting rod in the tender is actually a spare, as I recall seeing it and others, it certainly had motion on both sides.

 

Somne good pics! Just goes to show that she hasn't been neglected! But no better any loco than being in overhauled and in steam! Always seems a waste to me!

 

Incidentally, I recall the guide telling me that the Builders plate, worksplate, nameplate etc are all "canadian made" copies.
The originals have been removed (I think one the name plates are in a state musuem), the others are on separate display in the main museum.

60008 however in Green Bay had it's originals on one side, and the other side removed for musuem display. (Though I heard someone stole a builders plate from their), which is sad, especially as when I saw it, it was stored outside !, though now it's got it's own air conditioned museum built around it.