60019 Bittern

Good idea! Forget the troublesome steam engine and use a Diesel instead.

 

Absolutely, also maybe use a nice rake of MK3 aircons in weather like this too

 

I had a visit to Crewe a few years ago, and talking to the then CME, he stated that the 2nd tender wasn't actually up to the job.

The one time they filled it, the huge weight started damaging springs and damaging the white metal in the boxes.

The water tank when full weighs considerably more than a normal tender tank full of coal and water, but this hadn't been accounted for in the frames and associated springs, suspension and bearings.

 

I find that difficult to believe given it did 3400 almost uninterrupted miles in the United States in the 60s, not to mention nearly two decades worht of work behind Flying Scotsman in the UK.

It was rebuilt however with a new tank and other changes post A1 Trust ownership, and was then used on almost every single Bittern run on the mainline in the late 2000s and 2010s with only a few exceptions.

With respect, nobody goes into engineering and builds anything on the mainline with anything "unaccounted for". It might be more heavy on maintenance - accepted. But the weight of the water and the design of the tender tank in relation to the springs and frames were definitely factored in to its rebuilding.

 

No doubt, there will be drawings of the re-designed springs and frame modifications somewhere.

 

Funny you should mention Crewe and the 2nd tender, as Steam Railway has come today and says that the 2nd tender is set to be paired with both 60007 and 60532, as well as 60019 when complete and has already arrived at Crewe from Margate. Also says it will be re-engineered due to it's poor ride quality and the buckeyes coupler is to be replaced by a shackle.

 

If it’ll be used with several different locos (good idea by the way) clearly this is the right moment to commence the important matter of the 2nd tender livery debate. I suggest painting it grey so that it looks like a luggage van.

 

Replacing 9 tons of coal with water will give around 2000 gallons of extra water without increasing the overall weight in any way. Water is lighter than coal so replacing the coal volume with water isn't going to increase things that much, by my reckoning about 1500 gallons.

 

Looking at the list of the various BR1 derivative tenders.
The BR1 at 49 tons total weight to the BR1D at 54-1/2 tons and the BR1G at 52-1/2 tons, all had the same bearing springs fitted (16 leaves).
However, the BR1E at 55-1/2 ton and the BR1F at 55 ton 5cwt were fitted with bearing springs with 18 leaves.
Not much difference in total weight between the BR1D and BR1E/BR1F, but an increase in the springing was found to be necessary.

 

I rather liked the corporate blue/grey version tbh.

Failing that they could paint it in BR maroon/crimson red to match the passenger vehicles.

I’m not sure how I feel about them removing the drophead buckeye couplers.

 

You only need buckeye couplers with Pullman gangways. If there’s no gangway then a screw coupling is more appropriate.

 

I get that but it’s a part of the tenders history. Most appropriate for the LNER eight wheel corridor tenders. They’re normally drop head ones aren’t they? So multi functional anyway?

 

I am not sure, because it is a long time since I saw it, but I think the end of the 2nd tender that had had a drawbar originally was buckeye only. This meant if I recall correctly, that turning the loco could be a pain in the backside, because the tender wasn’t double ended so you couldn’t turn the engine and tender 1 only and run round the 2nd. This causes all sorts of planning issues that resulted in the tender being of little practical use.

I don’t remember the riding, but I suspect it just never got any attention because of its other shortcomings in practice.

 

That seems like a silly limitation that could have been put right at minimal cost.

 

I don’t know about minimal cost, but the question at the time was who would pay probably. The overhaul at was over budget.

 

I think either BR Crimson all over, or blood & custard, would make sense as all 3 locos will mainly run with the Saphos blood & custard rake. I understand the logic for mentioning BR Maroon but in this case I think B&C makes more sense.

 

4464 has been extracted from Margate today, with 46100 taking its place. The boiler will be removed at Crewe in the next couple of weeks for overhaul by LSL, then the loco and tender will head to North Yorkshire for overhaul by SNG Engineering Ltd.

 

Super ...another A4 heading back to "life".... I wonder what livery has Mr Hoskin have in mind ?

 

When you say loco and tender, do you mean minus boiler or is that accompanying the chassis, just as a separate lump?

 

Apple green