60163 to the Bluebell with Steam Dreams - Tuesday 10th September

Yes, although the other important part of that statement was "funds permitting"! It's a "within 5 years" aspiration in the draft Long Term Plan, but unless the plc are going to fund it from revenue (unlikely) it will have to be subject to a fundraising appeal. Given the likely (mid six figures?) cost, and the rather crowded list of other big ticket items to be paid for (Operation Undercover, Loco Works extension, not to mention the various locos and carriages it would be nice to fund), a turntable looks like it will have to fight for attention in a rather crowded field. In the cold light of day, I'm not convinced that the business case for a turntable just so we can turn other people's engines stacks up very well against, say, more undercover storage - not least for our own locos, half of which still live outside.

Tom

 

Or indeed, ever in the future ...

:smile:

Tom

 

I'm not up on the economics of it, but presumably factoring in turning the Bluebells own stock periodically to even out tyre wear doesn't make the case much stronger ?.

 

Whilst Network Rail is spending millions on gauge enhancement on strategic routes, others seem to drift out of gauge. How do they do it? Does the tamper raise the track by the odd 50mm without anyone noticing that there's an overbridge? These pinch points are going to be fun "when" the Southern is converted to 25kv!

 

Well, we've survived 50-odd years without having one, and without significant uneven problems of wear and tear or weathering.

I think in an ideal world we'd have a turntable, for the reasons you suggest as well as the opportunities for incoming charters, turning our own stock for the benefit of photographers and all sorts of other reasons. But it isn't an ideal world: there is only a limited capacity to raise funds (and all the potential advantages might generate or save cash, but probably not enough to make a reasonable return on investment on an expenditure of maybe £500k or so [sup]*[/sup]).

Whereas putting a similar sum into undercover storage for our locos and carriages would certainly generate a bigger RoI and would also probably (my opinion, not a formal poll!) prove an easier "sell" to the membership when asked to contribute cash.

[sup]*[/sup] Let's say a turntable would cost £500k and you wanted a 5% RoI, which is pretty modest. That means generating or saving £25k per year: that is a lot of extra charters and so on over and above what we would reasonably expect to have anyway, generated simply by the ability to turn locos or stock. Whereas as long ago as 1995, it was estimated that a 24 - 30 vehicle carriage shed might save £100k per year in maintenance at commercial rates, probably at least a 10% RoI on the prices of that time.

Tom

 

Not massively my field of expertise, but I believe that the major problems of getting steam to East Grinstead from the north are more to do with weight on some of the viaducts than height / width. This was one of the limiting factors with the spoil trains, meaning they had to be loaded very carefully to keep within acceptable overall and axle loads. The issue with a steam engine would probably be a very low speed restriction, which adds to the problems of pathing if you are trying to fit within a fairly congested "normal" service - half-hourly on a weekday.

There is just one (so I believe) particularly problematic area for height, where the line descends steeply, passes under a bridge and then climbs again. In days past this was something of a "V" shape change in gradient; it has been smoothed out over the years to allow it to be taken at a higher speed, but at the expense of raising the trackbed and therefore decreasing headroom.

Tom

 

When indeed! I don't see this happening for a very long time. I would expect that even the ploanned 25kv wiring to Southampton will get the chop when we finally get a chancellor who understands that getting the deficit down actually means spending less money

 

Not sure all those 66's whizzing to and from Southampton on Freightliners using increasingly expensive oil is cheaper in the long term...

I hightly doubt all the Southern would be converted, most of it is internal region passenger traffic, the LSWR to Basingstoke is the main exception.

 

If i remember an old Railway Herald article correctly, that is precisely what happens - though i'm not so sure about tamping, stoneblowing certainly leads to the railhead being lifted with obvious effects on structures with very limited clearance. If i remember rightly clearances have a degree of tolerance to take into account movement, and which presumably explains why we sometimes hear that Network Rail have been doing some physical measuring before a tour.

Chris

 

Also another rail tour rumoured to be coming that has been mentioned on the "Steam Trains in the UK" Facebook page is that the Severn Valley Railway will be running a steam excursion from Bridgnorth to Sheffield Park after their Autumn gala using 70000 and 777 double heading with possible diesel haulage back with Western Champion.

 

Hmm I was wondering just the other day that Railway to Railway railtours can now be run to the Bluebell. That sounds like a good tour and maybe 777 could stay for Giants of Steam (70000 is understand is going to the MHR that's on the same weekend). Would make a nice line up of the U's, Stowe, N15 and hopefully the S15 although I do wonder whether 777 would be in gauge (more width than the potential height restriction). I don't think 777 has been down this way for a while mainline wise.

 

(Slightly off topic): Technically, it is feasible to do Sheffield Park (Bluebell) - Alresford (MHR) and back in a day on a Saturday, using Bluebell, Southern, SWT and MHR service trains, with only one slightly dodgy change (4 minutes at Alton on the way back).

Has anyone tried it yet?

SP d. 09:45
EG (Bluebell) a. 10:25

EG (Network Rail) d. 10:37
Clapham Junction a. 11:25

Clapham Junction d. 12:00
Alton (Network Rail) a. 13:13

Alton (MHR) d. 14:00
Alresford a. 14:35


Alresford d. 15:00
Alton (MHR) a. 15:40

Alton (NR) d. 15:44
Clapham Junction a. 16:49

Clapham Junction d. 16:59
East Grinstead (NR) a. 17:47

East Grinstead (Bluebell) d. 18:30
Sheffield Park a. 19.05

Tom

 

It is only a railway magazine that states 70000 is going to the Midhants , I heard the end of last month that 70000 has been pomised to the Bluebell this Autumn. I have my doubts as wether 30777 will fit as well.

 

Same here. 777 does seem to be out of gauge on rather a lot of different lines these days, and South Croydon-East Grinstead doesn't boast the most generous of dimensions. An excursion from the SVR is also going to have to find a way round Reading. I guess it could go up to Birmingham and on to Banbury and the Chiltern route, but that's going to make for a very long day out. The only other route that springs to mind is via Worcester, Cheltenham, Yate, Bath and Salisbury, which is probably even longer.

Whether or not this particular rumour develops into a railtour, I'd be very susprised not to see another tour organised to the Bluebell later this year, and as Steam Dreams are running one from London, it would be best for another operator to tap into a different market and run one from a different starting point. However, I would not be surprised either to see a second trip from London, this time featuring 35028 and the VSOE pullmans, although this is purely speculation on my part. I certainly don't have any inside knowledge on this one, and may be totally wrong. The Autumn would be good time to run further excursions, as they could be combined with Sheffield Park Gardens, which are known for stunning displays of Autumn colours.

 

This does happen! Some civils & PWay work was done in the Farringdon area a few months back (I believe to do with re-aligning platform/stock heights) which suddenly made the new GSMR ariels on Southerns 377-5s out of gauge by 5mm. They had to pull them from traffic and find a different type of ariel at NRs expense as they had caused the stock to be out of gauge.

 

According to Steam Railway RTC are proposing a tour on September 21st, while considering the possibility of top and tailed Bulleid to the line with a watch this space afterwards.

Also seems that one of theories above is correct for this tour in that Tornado will haul the tour down to Sheffield Park and the diesel will take the tour out somewhere in the East Croydon. 60163 will be serviced at Sheffield Park and be attached to the rear of the train. The diesel will be on the back from Victoria.

 

Booked three seats on this trip. Should be a good day out.

Got the new SD brochure today which says that the trip is Steam hauled to Sheffield Park and then diesel hauled back to the outskirts of London where steam takes charge once again for the run down the Brighton Main Line to Redhill and then on to Guildford and back to Victoria.

 

E-tickets arrived today, looks like it runs as advertised

 

Sounds like Tornado was successfully gauged by Network Rail yesterday for the run as well. I've got the day off work so will be down to see her arrive.