60163 Tornado temporarily withdrawn.

So, Tornado's Boiler; firebox in particular, has some problems. And the people who built the boiler are working with their customer, and their customer's associates. To find out what has caused the problems. And to decide upon repairs and possibly other changes.
Seems perfectly sensible to me.

I suppose the slow rate of news isn't good enough for some people!

 

Actually Ralph there is one big difference between Carnforth and the A1SLT. Carnforth,s property is privately owned The A1SLT is not, it is a Charity, the Coventors (members) do have a right to know and having (unlike Carnforth who are very media shy) courted the media, the trust cannot afford to shun the media when it does not suit them.

I did say, yesterday that private owners have no need to disclose anything and nor do we have any right to information from them, however the A1SLT is not in this position.

 

Embarrassment?

 

Maybe they have got just a little bit more on their minds than a paint job. Perhaps later.:smile:

 

To paraphrase a well known saying, live by the media, die by the media. If you court media attention then go quiet when there is a problem the media will just make up a story which appears to fit the facts! Much less harmful to put out a sensible statement giving enough information to satisfy.

 

But you claim to know 'the real truth' so why are you playing to the gallery and highlighting the problem (as you see it)? Continually criticising the trust in a public forum serves no useful or positive purpose IMHO. What exactly is your agenda here ?

 

Yes. If Oakfield KNOWS, (he's hinted that he does) why is he going on about wanting things published?

Don't mention the war.:nono:eace:

 

Simply the truth. However in the spirit of Sidmouth's post I shall make no further comment for the time being.

I can now appreciate how Bongo felt when he was criticized regarding his comments over Royal Scot and the waste of and mismanagement of public money on the overhaul which we were assured had no real problems, often by the same people who have attacked me. Time proved him correct but I notice no apologies were ever forthcoming!

 

I can speak without an axe to grind re 60163 as it is not a loco on my list to travel behind, and not one I have any interest in at all. Except that for the now cancelled Bluebell visit, 60163 being there would have drawn the crowds away from trains hauled by other locos I wanted to travel behind! So I may not now visit the event.

But re the slow pace of news.

My understanding, (do correct me if I am wrong), is that a very large number of people, (many of whom are on this Forum), have, and are continuing to put money into this project. So to me they are a form of "customer" to the A1 trust. And as I am seeing through comments day after day here with the postings on Nat Pres, the status of those who are purely customers, (ie regular travellers on steam hauled trips, non working members of loco owning groups etc), are deemed by some to be a much lower life form than those who are much more closely involved with the locos or train operations. And get treated as such. Well, that is how I see things.

It's something that has been bothering me a great deal since I returned to my interest in UK steam. I've not encountered it anywhere else at this level, and I have been involved, (including financially), closely in the steam scenes of South Africa, Eastern Germany and Northern Germany. It's actually stopped me from deciding to invest what to me would have been very significant sums of money in the UK's steam scene: I would love to have made a significant difference to a single project that was close to my heart. But I just don't want to risk joining in on the side of those whom, (and I think with very good reason), I feel consider themselves elitist or whatever in the way that I perceive some of them treat the run of the mill customer. And from what I have seen so far the lack of decent news in the last few days from the A1 trust for all their very many "customers" could possibly be another example of this. At least to me.

I was proposing to start another thread on this, (elitism and the treatment I perceive of us "customers") and may still do so. Not as a means of knocking anyone, but as a means of pointing out what I have seen over the last three years in the hope that some changes in attitude can at least be considered.

 

There`s no shortage of news on our website Bryan and we will welcome you with open arms if you would like to invest some money with us! http://www.82045.org.uk/82045_news.html

Incidentally, we are going for a British built, traditional boiler!

 

I've never thought of my status as a covenanter as making me a 'customer' of the A1SLT. 'Member', 'contributor', 'supporter' or even 'investor' all sit easier in my mind.

However, that's beside the point. The real issue here is the sudden deafening silence from the A1SLT now that our pride and joy is in the workshop. Because nothing was said to the contrary, one inference of the 9th July bulletin was that the locomotive would be ready in time for it's much publicised appearance on the Bluebell. Ten days later news leaks out that that appearance is cancelled with no information about why. That's why no news is definitely NOT good news.

I'm sure that I will not be alone in asking questions about the way that this has been handled at the A1SLT convention in October. That's if it isn't suddenly cancelled because the locomotive is still in pieces....

 

In a way I am not surprised that things have gone quiet from the A1SLT. Consider the situation. Some stays have broken and been replaced. Subsequently another (at least) has broken. Clearly all is not well.

It is now deep thinking time - why are they breaking - and more importantly what needs to be done to resolve the problem. This will involve discussions between the A1SLT, Meiningen, the Insurers, the Vehicle Acceptance Body plus various other parties. This will all take time.

Not knowing the positioning of stays so far affected one can at best hazard a guess as to the solution, but the installation of more flexible stays could be a possibility. If (and I stress 'If') this or similar major work is the way forward it is going to take time and probably more resources than currently available at Hither Green.

One other point, I hope that the A1SLT will make available their findings, conclusions and solution as I'm sure they wouldn't want to have anyone else with the same problem. After all, there is a safety issue here.

 

One of the more sensible and rational posts in this thread.

 

I pass no comment on the validity or otherwise of the information, however I have just been advised that if you look on another forum on the Tornado tread in Steam Discussion someone (and not I, I hasten to add) has made some comments regarding the problems. I am sure this is the last thing the trust would have wanted , but was bound to happen, given their stance.

 

Come on then spill the beans, what forum, or is a secret.......

 

it does seem that by keeping quiet, the the neigh sayers have been able to come around and say I told you so, and start suggesting more and more outlandish conspiricies on why there is silence.

Personally I think, although this cancelled Bluebell think wasn't handled correctly, that we are best served by them telling us actuall important and major things ... such as the reason why it failed ... and when they have fixed it.

As we've seen any announcement by the trust is greeted by a whole new batch of conspircies and I told you sos. If they told us every day or two what was happening, all we'ed get is a pile of comments abou how it wasn't going quickly, how it was going too quickly, how it should be done another way etc etc

Since it is pretty clear that a large amount of steam enthuiasts are both passionate and also affirmended in their belive that they know best, this is bound to happene. But at the moment, the A1 trust are the leading experts in how a Peppercorn A1 runs and should be maintained, and they are working with a bunch of expert engineers. None of them want this to take longer than it needs to, so we assume untill clearly shown otherwise (which given how successful Tornado has been, we are not near that time) that they know best and are doing all they can.

 

Thanks for that. But I've now committed myself to a different, (non railway), cause for the foreseeable future. One that I feel very comfortable with. It could be a few years now until I am able to reconsider my stance re investing in the UK steam scene.