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6023 + 6024 Double Header to Plymouth - 10 March 2012 - UK Steam

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by j4141, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. Guest

    Guest Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    I'm sorry Ralph but this sort of "uphold the operators at all costs" mantra is getting tiresome, and this situation shows why the pool type of operation is the way to go. There will usually be something in reserve.

    This particular excursion was originally offered as two Kings to Plymouth which was almost enough to get this particularly non GWR enthusiast interested.

    The it became one King and Tornado, then Tornado and the Duke, so not even native motive power. Then we had the promise of a King again for a few days - but now - it will be a 67!

    The whole USP of this tour has been shuttled from pillar to post, and now is lost completely. This is further compounded by the fact that just about everything else with legs is operating this week so unless 35028 became available there is just nothing in reserve with which to attempt to rectify the position. 35028 is operated by DBS - I wonder if it was requested?

    I also wonder how long this market will continue to defy gravity and get away with turning out a product somewhat less than was offered - especially at the premium fares this operator is applying later this year. As this sort of situation continues to unfold my instinctive reaction is to be very careful how and what I book.
     
  2. Oakfield

    Oakfield Guest

    Removed, double post.
     
  3. Oakfield

    Oakfield Guest

    Frank and ADB968008 are both correct. Ralph, please explain why they should not give a substantial refund, on the tour to participants, now that their base costs are going to be at least £5,000 less?
     
  4. Steam gets in your eyes

    Steam gets in your eyes New Member

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    does anyone know why 35028 isn't available on Saturday? after all it is in London and not rostered for a tour
     
  5. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    What's wrong with 6024? Apart from some coal issues it has performed well lately.
     
  6. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I don't work for a TOC and therefore am not au fait with their workings, I am also not in any position to explain why or how they should or should not give refunds.
    A pool operation would not work for the few who will only book with specific motive power, as they would then never bother since they could never be sure of what was going to be on the front.
    The diesel tour operators rarely advertise a specific loco for the same reason, put the 'wrong' 47 on the front and there were a vociferous few frothing when they found out they had been 'cheated'...
    Specific power will always be at the mercy of sods law so basically you have two choices, take you chance or don't go.
     
  7. Shoddy127

    Shoddy127 Well-Known Member

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    Because I imagine that Clan Line's support crew have other things to do in their lives other than just play trains!

    I would have also thought that SD may have tried them but at this short notice it would be near on impossible to get the amount of crew required.

    It's a real shame that things have fallen by the way side, the passengers have lost out but also 71000's society in lost revenue. Mind you, it could have been worse, the train could have been cancelled and not be running at all!
     
  8. palace gates

    palace gates Guest

    Vintage Trains do not give refunds so wht should Steam Dreams.I still think that this trip is good value with 340 miles of unassisted steam.Just compare this with last Saturdays trip to Cleethorpes.This should have been a KX to Cleethorpes and back to Peterboro trip.It ended up being a KX to Worksop unassisted trip.Not satisfactory in my opinion.
     
  9. spindizzy

    spindizzy Member

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    Lets not forget SD have had some passengers money for this trip for over 1 year. The trip I booked on 14 months ago was the ill fated Minehead/Plymouth trip. It was postponed twice, motive power changed three times and now the most challenging part of the trip has been removed. Whilst the offer of a 10% discount on the next trip is welcome it is hardly generous, you get 12.5% just booking and paying on any SD trip. Oh well, lets hope for a cracking run to and from Exeter and that I am able to catch the last train home, according to NRE I can't.
     
  10. campainr

    campainr Well-Known Member

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    Yes it has happened over this route. And this is what happened.............. 71000 on The Devonian Sunday 4th May - YouTube (skip to 1:00 if you want)

    Essentially the 67 shut itself down and gave absolutely no power at all on the climb and just sat there as dead weight leaving 71000 to struggle on alone, and it almost pulled the whole lot over the top but then slipped to a stop and had to wait for a few minutes for the diesel to "reset" itself, before (with steam to spare) it restarted the train with the 67.

    The irony is that it was only a 10 coach train which on a dry day 71000 could probably have taken it up solo and without the diesel the train wouldn't have stopped.

    (not my video by the way)
     
  11. 6026 King John

    6026 King John Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a deliberate policy of keeping Clan Line fit for the VSOE which must be a nice little earner. In recent years the MNLPS have agreed to hire it out for one or two other tours per year, but that's all (Steam Dreams have it booked for 9th July this year). It is not commonly available as a last minute substitute for failed engines either on the main line or at steam galas as some seem to think.
     
  12. malc

    malc Part of the furniture

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    Actually it was KX to Cleethorpes unassisted with 120-odd tons of extra weight on the back from Worksop. Despite 70013 not being in the best of health, the diesel did virtually no work - just as it should be.
     
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    What a sad case of 'best laid plans'.....Apart from cancel, which given the complete change of scenario (apart from the destination) might have been the most appropriate and fairer option, it's really hard to see what else SD could have done. Had they offered a day out to Exeter, I suspect that few would have complained and it would probably have attracted a good response. But I for one was going for the Devon banks experience and that's clearly going to be diesel assisted given the load.

    As the last time they tried for the Devon banks (on the ACE) that turned into diesel assistance when Tangmere failed, SD does seem out of luck on this one.
     
  14. malc

    malc Part of the furniture

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    This is true, but unfortunately, on this occasion, had it not been for the diesel, the train would not have STARTED as 71000 had a brake problem and the 67 was there to provide air. I was lucky enough to be in the support coach on this tour and had it not been for the flange greaser (just visible to the left of the trees in the video) I'm pretty sure 71000 was have made it to the top of Dainton unassisted with the 10 coaches and 67 in tow.

    I'd rather not have a diesel in the formation, but when they are not working and just providing extra load (as here and with 70013 to Cleethorpes on Saturday) they can sometimes result in even more impressive performances from the steam locos.
     
  15. ROGace

    ROGace Member

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    very disappointed trip has been changed.
     
  16. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    The owners of Clan Line are perfectly entitled to pick and choose what work they do or don't do. If they don't want to act as second or third choice for failures than that is their choice.
     
  17. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    Several DB charters have featured a steam + diesel combination. Clan Line and the VSOE (class 67). 71000 has had a diesel tucked behind the tender on the Torbay Express. The first time was during the fire risk season (5/06/2011). Seven days later, ironically, there was no diesel assistance and the loco failed at Tiverton loop on the return. After the loco returned to the Torbay Express trains on 21st August, 2011, a diesel was tucked behind the tender for added 'insurance'.
    The first season of TBEL/DB Poole to Bristol charters were very successful. As far as I know, the only time a train required assistance was when 4492 ran low on coal on the outward leg to Bristol and a class 67 diesel was added at Westbury.
    I'm sure there are other examples but in general, DB do tend to 'let the steam train take the strain'. <BJ>
     
  18. ROGace

    ROGace Member

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    perhaps better they had cancelled it and re-run it later on with 2 locos? maybes...

    expensive for SD to cancel and resched yes no doubt,

    however,
    i think that for the doubly affected pax (who booked the ACE and now this one) its a bit of a bummer unfortunately.
    :(
     
  19. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

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    Its not for me to tell operators how to run their businesses, and I can see that working out the pricing to enable in effect self insured refunds to be given would be a nightmare, but I'm glad I decided when I looked at this one that discretion was the better part of valour! On the basis that the chances of getting what I wanted and was willing to pay a high price for (the 2 Kings) was pretty low, and that if it didn't happen I'd get stuck with something else (not that its necessarily objectionable) without any options on a refund, I chose not to book.

    That said as the tour is full, the costs are lower and even after the 10% refund the operator is presumably making a return, all the moaning on here isn't going to add up to pressure for change!
     
  20. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    But what if all of the people who are 'moaning on here' vote with their wallets next time and spend their hard earned cash on something more worthwhile to them. <BJ>
     

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