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6023

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Eightpot, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    For those of you who are suspicious of the new blastcap, there are three videos supplied by Chris Denton who was acting fireman on the
    return trip of 3 hours. See for yourself: https://www.facebook.com/groups/6023KingEdward/
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
  2. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

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    Has she made any revenue earning trips on the main line? Seems an amazing waste.
     
  3. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    She has made none. I hadn't twigged that it is quite so close to the 7 year mark - although of course Braunton had a similar story in its previous ticket. Hopefully the future will be brighter and its trip to OOC was certainly encouraging.

    Sent from my SM-J330FN using Tapatalk
     
  4. Penricecastle

    Penricecastle Member

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    After a while, the eye becomes accustomed to the loco having a different look. With the shorter chimney, safety valve cover and cab roof, 6023 looks superb, it now has a really powerful "super King" look.

    I doubt that many people are "suspicious" of Jos's new blastcap. Everyone wants it to be be a great success, steam really well and be a superb main line performer.
     
  5. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Jos

    Are there any reports so far on coal consumption as I recall part of the problem with the compromised solution before your involvement was that she was rather hungry?
     
  6. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    I don't know at the moment. The small crew concerned with the 6023 is extremely busy so information is the victim, frankly I cannot blame them for that!
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  7. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Is there such a thing as a 7 year ticket now ? Many main line locomotives are running 10 , 11 years subject to inspection , retube and maintenance .

    @JJG Koopmans , apologies if this has been explained previously . For this non engineering person , how does shortening the chimney affect the blast and steaming ? and then , your modifications , how does this resolve the problem ?

    Many thanks in advance
     
  8. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I appreciate why this has been done (lowering the loco) but it still looks lopped and less balanced . compare her to her original profile . Everything crossed , prayer mats out etc that the rumours on the grapevine and jungle drums come to fruition soon
     
  9. Penricecastle

    Penricecastle Member

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    I hope that at some point, when the loco is not certified for main line running, the original sleeved single chimney and taller safety valve cover are reinstated. However, as we know, the lower chimney etc. is essential for main line operation and I think, having become accustomed to it, it does give the loco a powerful, purposeful look.
     
  10. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    You are asking too early ;), I have prepared a rather lengthy explanation for publication after the tests! The gist of it is that a chimney needs a certain length in order to transfer the momentum of the steam jet to the surrounding combustion products. It should have a length-diameter ratio of say minimal 2 to work properly.
    Once that value is lower, problems occur and in the case of the lowered chimney of the King the value had dropped to 1.55 and appeared unworkable.
    Now what is happening with a double chimney is that both chimneys are scale models of a single chimney with a length of square root (2) larger than the original.
    Since the 6023 crew wanted a single chimney the double chimneys are basically doubled again to a quadruple version with 4 orifices. For each of these the length - diameter ratio is now doubled to 3.1 which is excellent. So a 4 orifice blastcap properly positioned does the trick!
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
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  11. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    So its a 4 hole cap draughting into a single diffuser, a bit like a Lemaitre but with one less hole ?
    Have always wondered why have a double chimney , when a larger single oval shape with a double blastpipe ( or 6 nozzles) would do. the same thing and be a lot simpler to build More shapely than those huge round buckets that Bulleids have too.
     
  12. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    Only a bit like Lemaitre! He had 5 orifices an a central one that was adjustable. However, looking at Lemaitres patent-applications, his ideas about the
    functionality of a front-end are fairly different from mine. The scale model approach is mine and based on Dr Buckinghams similarity text of 1913 which is the fluid dynamics approach. As such the 2, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 orifice systems are all family members and can be treated in the same way, scale models of an ever increasing (length) single chimney system. One of the enigma's for me is why they failed to see this when they were so busy testing!
    Kind regards
    Jos
     
  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Firstly a big thank you for endeavouring to explain . to try and translate , from blastpipe top to chimney top needs a be a certain length to generate the draught on the fire . Too little and the force of the exhausting steam dissipates too rapidly not creating the draught

    what you are doing by splitting the exhaust is creating the right force to create an optimum draught
     
  14. Penricecastle

    Penricecastle Member

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    The new draughting arrangements for 6023 are brilliant and fascinating. Looking at the video of the light steam towed return to Didcot from Old Oak Common, the exhaust beat sounds different, more of a hissing sound than a deep bark. However, the loco wasn't working hard, so it might sound quite different when opened out. I predict that the loaded test runs (when they happen) will prove a great success. I wonder if 6023 will equal, or even exceed, the power outputs of it's double chimney classmate 6024? I hope when 6023's draughting is proven, that Jos is allowed to develop a similar system for another main line loco. Some may feel that originality would be sacrificed, but Jos's blastpipe changes are not irreversible and why shouldn't steam locos be developed further? Hopefully there are exciting times ahead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  15. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    She looks better (I am not sure why) than 6024, where the safety valve bonnet looks like its been sat on?

    I did see somewhere a suggestion she was off to the SVR for some running, has the WSR trip been called off??
     
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  16. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    In theory the 6023 could be better than 6024. At the moment she has 4 orifices of each 3 in., the equivalent of a single of 6 in. The 6024 has 2 orifices of 4 in. which is equal to a single of 5.66 in, so marginally smaller. The 6024 also had its chimneys reduced, from the drawings in Nock (Stars, Castles, Kings) I calculate the original length-diameter ratio as 2.5, reduced by 3 in. it drops to 2.28 which compares unfavourably with the present 3.1 of the 6023. Please note that I am not boasting about this, I am not in a p...ing contest!
    As for other locomotives, I do have some ambitions! However I am 77 now and my primary ambition is to share the know-how, all these fairy tales about front-end performance should be forgotten!
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
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  17. Penricecastle

    Penricecastle Member

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    Fantastic. I wonder how much improved a Princess Royal such as 6201 could be with a similar blastpipe?
    Thanks for the reply Jos.
     
  18. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Meant to post the other week, there was a photo on Facebook with the cylinder cladding off on the drivers side as apparently one of the bogie boxes ran warm coming back from OOC which was being rectified and there was a valve issue being investigated, cannot remember any more than that.
     
  19. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    What with one thing and another over several years, this loco must have cost the GWS a lot of money, with not a lot to show for it: a loco with not much time left for any possible main line running before its boiler certificate runs out and it needs a fresh overhaul. Am I being too negative or is that about right?
     
  20. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    A re-tube and Boiler test hardly constitutes a fresh overhaul, but I think your assessment is there or thereabouts unfortunately.
     

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