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6023

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Eightpot, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Like the current generation of DMUs in Northern Ireland, which seem to have bodies to something like British loading gauge and steps to get closer to the Irish loading gauge platforms.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  2. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    I'm grateful for that information, as I was puzzled as to why the Kings should have as much of a clearance problem as the 2-cylinder GWR locos with their much larger cylinders.

    And I am more than ever glad that I seized the opportunity for a ride into Euston behind a King when it happened on 1st March 2012.
     
  3. baldbof

    baldbof Member

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    Why isn't there a "tongue-in-cheek" smilie?
     
  4. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Because it would look like someone 'simulating fallatio' ?
     
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  5. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    That is the problem with the contemporary attitude to risk assessment. It really doesn't matter what is done to mitigate risk, idiots will find ways to injure or kill themselves. Concern has been expressed that National Parks that have restored eroded footpaths in mountainous areas could be liable for injuries caused by trips. It might not have happened yet but wait!
     
  6. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Very surprised that at the entrance gates to upland areas a sign saying that 'walking on unmetalled footpaths poses a danger and usersw ho enter do so at there own risk'
     
  7. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    But it does matter, because it is possible to considerably reduce the number of idiots who kill and injure themselves. Only compare the death injury and accident rate on the roads now to say compared to what it was in the 1930s. Its a fraction of what it was, and the difference sure as hell isn't that the idiots are any less idiotic. And every time one of those idiots kills and injures itself we taxpayers have to pick up the tab. I bet if you talk to anyone involved in running a heritage line some idiot killing or seriously injuring themselves ranks as one of their nightmares because of the level of disruption and financial loss involved.
     
  8. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    Castle and King cylinders and valves are both at 7'2 centres according the the drawings I've seen. So was the Great Bear.
    Saint pistons are at 6'10" centres and Saint valves at 5'11 centres, so are the 9300, so I imagine that applies to all the 18*30 2cylinder classes.
     
  9. Hermod

    Hermod New Member

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    Adams 4-4-2 t and midland compounds had outside cylinders 6 feet 3 apart with conrods inside coupling rod.
    9F is 6 feet 8.
    7 feet 2 is due to the french inspired layout with cylinders and boggie wheels getting to close.
    If Churchward had chosen three cylinder front wheel drive it would have been a better locomotive able to clear all british loading gauges,less track distortion, less footplate vibration and a much clearer mechanical design.Cheaper even.
    Old men should not be allowed close to lovely french locomotives.
    The sins were inherited on LMS with 4-6-2 things
     
  10. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Only slightly relevant to 6023 but it has already been touched on here with rolling stock. Other than the track being 3 inches wider either side - how restrictive is the Loading gauge / axle Load in Ireland ?
    Potentially a haven for over wide British locos ? ( though by the time you've lengthened axles and respaced cylinders perhaps not)
     
  11. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    If only Churchward would have been able to see 115 years into the future.....
     
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  12. Hermod

    Hermod New Member

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    Locomotive preservation is not very different from other museums.
    Keep the good and sell/scrap the rest.
    Fourcylinder simple locomotives were dead ends elsewhere in the world,but not in England?
     
  13. maddog

    maddog New Member

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    How does the width compare with 165/166 DMUs? Aren't they wider than most stock, although are they narrower at platform level than the cylinders of a king?
     
  14. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    Makes no sense, we had them till the end of steam in the Netherlands.
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
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  15. Hermod

    Hermod New Member

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  16. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    A tad impractical, but to answer a few points, very little Irish stock took anything like full advantage of the full width available. In locomotive terms, cabs were a bit roomier. The English sized cab was one of the few things about the "Woolworths" moguls (the Maunsell 2-6-0 "government surplus" locos) which didn't go down well with crews, but of native designs, only the Bredin B1a class 4-6-0 of 1939 came near maximum dimensions. Even then, they were too damned heavy to stray from the Dublin-Cork mainline, hence only three were ever built. Shifting No.800, via the GNRI mainline to it's final resting place at Cultra was a performance and a half!


    Regarding gauge changing, there were certain issues with the "Woolworths" which could be laid directly at the doorstep of the regauging process, most due to thrust from cylinders with wider centres.

    The widest carriages operated in the Republic (introduced under Bulleid) came in at 10'-2", but later kit reverted to a max of 9'-6". The cross-border GNRI had nowt over 9'-6" wide.

    It's worth noting that the changes due to reballasting and realignment which have caused so many gauging issues here aren't unknown in Ireland either.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  17. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    Yeah, ordered by a Government (in exile) committee. The 4-6-0 passenger locomotives were scrapped after 8-10 years service. The 2-8-0 goods locomotives lasted only a little longer. It was a costly exercise and they should have waited for the WD engines and even paid for their construction in the UK/US.
    kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
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  18. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder .... Was that inspired by Nordic solidarity or the Marshall plan?
     
  19. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    ? The Marshall plan was made public in 1947, long after the locomotive orders and deliveries! The Swedish order was convenient since it was a neutral country that built the engines during the war. Likewise the Swiss were asked for their reserve steam fleet.
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
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  20. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Oh well....... another conspiracy thoery bites the dust!! :)

    Nordic solidarity it is then.... Thanks for the info Jos.
     

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