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6023

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Eightpot, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    This is just a polite message to remind everyone that this thread is primarily about 6023 and its activities. Whilst the specific difficulty with clearances on the Network is a legitimate concern with 6023, there is a separate thread for all matters concerning gauging as other locomotives are also affected. This thread is at:

    https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/network-rail-gauging-issues.33109/page-6
     
  2. Ray Coldwell

    Ray Coldwell New Member

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    Apologies if my contribution yesterday should have been on the Network Rail Gauging page. It was not meant to be.

    I understand it has since been moved to the said alternative page, However, I felt compelled to write specifically for the 6023 King group.

    The impact of improper track programmes with ballast packing and platform matters (amongst many) is hugely retrograde for 6023, together with many other locomotives now, and the railways of the future. The King has been radically altered to comply with short-sighted and ill-thought out loading gauge constraints. These alterations to 6023 are in vain unless strict control of mainline permanent way maintenance matters are to be consistent and enforced by Network Rail. Contractor work needs to be strictly supervised and monitored as often it is non-sanctioned minor deviations that create issues for locomotives like 6023.

    The malpractices must be addressed. The unthinkable costs and frustrations for those who have worked so very hard on 6023 to meet the mandatory criteria, should not have to endure regulations which change with the 'slightest breeze'.

    There is no doubt that matters will come to a head. The problems faced by 6023 look set to reach the headlines due to significant issues affecting the new rolling stock sets to be introduced by First Great Western. Hopefully, this may be the catalyst that resolves matters for 6023 and ensures that permanent way clearances and maintenance regimes revert to standards that have been successfully proven for decades. An examination of former mainline stalwart 6000 demonstrates how matters have radically restricted clearances over a very short time. 6023 should be expected to have no problems in mainline running opportunities whatsoever and this must be ensured.

    R Coldwell (Chartered Surveyor)
     
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  3. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I didn't write that one should not try to stop idiots killing or injuring themselves. That is a different discussion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  4. Hermod

    Hermod New Member

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    My memory was wrong
    NS ordered 15 three cylindered 4-6-0

    http://www.nicospilt.com/scans/stoom/4001.JPG

    and 35 threecylindered 0-8-0

    http://www.scaletrading.nl/philotrain/images/870-38-3 NS 4719 (6).jpg

    http://www.nicospilt.com/scans/ZG1.JPG.

    Not developments of fourcylinder inside valve gear from former dutch engines.
    By the way I think 50 of the 4-8-0 would have been a smarter buy.They were fast enough.

    GWR locomotives have always been to big on some other british railways that did not recognize that 7 feet was the best rail gauge.My gues is that B12 will be one of the last mainline allowed six coupled steam locomotives in England
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  5. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    My reading of the article in Steam Railway was that Network Rail were liaising directly with the GWS to try and work out a way forward if at all possible, which is quite unusual, while Mr Croucher of the GWS said that he doesn't give up easily, so both sides seem to be doing all they can in the hope that some main line running will be possible, albeit probably only on a restricted number of routes. It doesn't sound like all is lost - yet. One can therefore only hope that, after all the effort in bringing a real no-hoper back from scrapyard condition, that it will not prove to have been in vain as afar as main line running is concerned.
     
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  6. staffordian

    staffordian Member

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    And what could be more true to the past than a King only being allowed on a very restricted number of routes :)
     
  7. Midland Red

    Midland Red New Member

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    A side view of the outside cylinder casing looks no different from the previous 'wide' cylinder. The loco head-on view still has the cylinder casing just outside the edge of the running board - only rivet-counters will spot the difference!!
     
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  8. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Slightly worrying though it won't be allowed to work from Paddington to either Plymouth or Wolverhampton!
     
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  9. Chris86

    Chris86 Member

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    You have got to feel for the 6023/Didcot guys, its been a long drawn out process to get 6023 this far and it would be a crying shame if what was once a 'project impossible' job didn't make it onto the main line.

    I really, really hope that the issues can be resolved and that they don't have to go down the route of 6024 with new cylinders to realise their aim.

    If anyone from Didcot happens to read this- best of luck to you all!

    Chris
     
  10. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    I strongly suspect that the GWR loading gauge was very little to do with the broad gauge. Something like half the GWR route mileage never had any broad gauge track on, and all the problematic numbers are really about the distances from the platform to the nearest rail, which must have been pretty much the same for broad gauge and narrow gauge, since they used a common rail.
     
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  11. Hermod

    Hermod New Member

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    Steam locomotives 2017 is a virtual world anyway .
    Take some angle grinders to Settle- Carisle and cut platforms edges 1 or 2 inches back.
    A calibrated dynamometer car and 20 period looking cars.
    Less outlay than a Disney world and comparable joy and income.
    This is more or less the formula behind Harzquerbahn(alive and steam)
     
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  12. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    In the last issue of the Journal of the Stephenson Locomotive Society (sept/oct 2017) appeared an article from me: “On the Calculation of Front-end performance”. It is my version of the exhaust momentum equation with theoretical deduction and numerical proof from the majority of the Rugby test data. It was my intention to publish this as the last one of three articles on single orifice chimney behavior, multi orifice chimney behavior and finally the momentum theory. All of this should be published after the velocity tests of GWR 6023 so that its front-end behavior was fully explained. However, the loading gauge problems have made a mess of the timing , so it is my intention to post the first two articles shortly in the appropriate section with heading ”Locomotive Front End Designs”. Since the King has not given trouble at low speeds, unlike some other multiple exhaust systems, and has run at 40 mph max. to Paddington and back, I think it is save to do so.
    Please bear with me, I have to prepare some graphs to go with them and have to learn again how to post those.
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     

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