6100 Royal Scot

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

To put it blunty and simply for some people,as an example, in some hands an overhaul will take 8 years and the best part of a Million pounds, yet in other hands the same job would take 4 years and and cost 600,000........

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

Got to agree there, I queried some correspondence relating to a locomotive charity which I knew threw some light on a dispute and got the response 'we don't retain any correspondence' - good grief!

Dave

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

Well well well, rather interesting. In the last few years, I am aware of A. N. Organisation that was investigated by the Charities Commission, due to the suspected transfer of money between accounts. When you donate money towards something, and it ends being used on something else, that to my mind is fraud.

But according to the Charities Commission, it's actually perfectly acceptable.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

So has she steamed yet or not?

I cant wait 2 see her at the WSR!

 

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It will be interesting to see whether she gets there or not. I expect it will be a "damned close run thing", to quote the Iron Duke.

 

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Until one knows the identity and credentials of the moaners it is very difficult to take their allegations seriously. In my experience many people who gripe about some railway/project or other have a very big personal axe to grind. Bongo may be spot on where 6100 is concerned but equally he could be stirring things with a very big wooden spoon and we have no way of telling which.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

Well actually you do. Just go and join the people who are currently getting their hands dirty on 6100 and you'll soon find out.

Also I understand that if you read page 14 issue 120 of Heritage railway, there's something of a clue there.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

A very interesting article about Flying Scotsman and the condition she was in when handed over to the NRM. It doesnt sound like a ringing endorsement of her previous overhaul, or her subsequent maintenance. Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt that carried out by the person doing 6100...?

Chris

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

They're certainly skirting around the subject. I had to laugh when I read this particular sentence. - "Danny Hopkins says it is now almost impossible to know who was responsible for the poor workmanship that brought Scotsman to a standstill".

Maybe he's been taking advice from Ian Hislop - allegedly.

B & Q pipe fittings eh. Sadly it's not the only engine that is suffering from such things - think of one which was returned to it's original home base when things became really bad, not that long ago. As a matter of fact when 4472 was first air braked it was originally fitted with the proper pipework and EHD fittings. I wonder who'd been fiddling about with it since.

 

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I thought that one person had essentially been been in charge of Scotsmans maintenance for many years until bought by the NRM. Not mentioning any names, though....... :-$ :-k

 

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I think thats a bit unfair. 4472 is unique in it's price value to own, and hence the costs / ROI requested off of it meant the owners always had little choice but to maximise the use of of this engine, invariably at the expense of it's maintenace requirements.
It's the same costs that ultimately brought it's last owners to it's knees.
I also think back to the 1990's in it's 60103 guise, when completely knackered it was taken off the mainline, but still chartered a tour of preserved railways at a hugh 4 figure cost per steaming.. just to get the money in, and in the end the engine's boiler expired mid-tour and the owners had no more options but to fix it.
Putting it differently, if one man kept the engine for over 20 years.. he must know more than the rest, and must be good, else he'd have been out of a job long ago... You cant pretend with such a high profile engine as 4472 in the same ways you can with some random Hall or Black5.

 

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If Scotsman got so much use, as you say, and are probably spot on, what has happened to all the money that it earned? If there was no time to keep up with maintenance, as you suggest, then it wasn't spent doing that.
I have had no involvement with Scotsman and my only knowledge is gained from reading and listening to the grapevine so perhaps shouldn't be commenting but I do think that there is much more to it than the simple curse of the Scotsman. That article in the Yorkshire Post says a lot. Welding up boiler manhole doors isn't something that just happens.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

As a matter of fact, the reality works almost the opposite to how you've outlined.

There are quite a few fake engineers around sadly, and Scotsman has unfortunately been allowed out in an unacceptable condition many times over the years. It's almost always been the exception to the standards that have largely been maintained elsewhere, just because it's Scotsman. It's a touch offensive to suggest that Halls and black fives on the main line somehow get away with lower standards. In fact some of those engines rate up amongst those in the very best condition.

It's undoubtedly difficult for those haven't been exposed to the worst excesses of what has gone on, to take on board the stark reality. But I think it's clear now that some of these issues are coming home to roost. So you might learn something in the coming weeks and months.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

Good question - what indeed.

This is the question that has been posed several times on this forum recently. Also where has all the money been spent that has been directed towards 6100 - for example. There is a pattern here isn't there? It's not tens of thousands, or even just a few hundreds. It's close on or even over a million each time. How can that sort of money be spent on an engine, only to find not much later that there is so much wrong with it? These engines aren't doing all that much work. In service they would have been averaging hundreds of miles a day with a lot less going wrong. Just think about that.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

I do know a couple of the lads who are working on 6100. They're taking time off of working on 34081 until we get our lottery application sorted. In the meantime there's still plenty of fund raising and preparatory mechanical stuff on the loco to keep me and others in the 34081 gang occupied thank you very much.

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

[/quote] You cant pretend with such a high profile engine as 4472 in the same ways you can with some random Hall or Black5.[/quote]

I cannot believe that you could 'pretend' with anything on the mainline.

Speaking as someone who has no experience of running on the mainline and the associated processes, reading these articles and points that other people have made on here how the hell did she keep passing the necessary fitness to run tests if the condition and materials were so bad.

With regards to the costs of any HLF funded project I would assume (its always been the case with my projects) that any payment claims would need to be supported by invoices and would need to be in the same sort of ball park as those shown in the stage 2 lottery bid document as accepted by the HLF and forming part of the funbding contract. Now assuming that costs have spiralled I am not sure how this can be the case, although its amazing what you can do with Management Fees etc.....

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

Is this Topic about 6100 Royal Scot test runs or about 4472 ?

Everytime i think there is news on 6100 all i find is people bickering

about Scotsman. Can the we stick to the original subject please?

Thanks

Mike M ( 70c )

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

I bet if those at bressingham who instigated this locos return to steam and the mainline have read these pages (sadly not are all around to do so) I bet they are left wondering why did they bother.

Always, some folks are too quick to sit in their armchairs with their pseudo loggin names and critiscise everything but come the end of the day they do f--k all to help, financially or physically.

Well I say good on Bressingham and good on Roland and his team for getting 6100 back where she belongs, as Ive said before its money well spent.

JS

 

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How far along on 6100 are they now? Can't be THAT far off.....

 

Re: 6100 Royal Scot test runs

There's a path in TRUST for a 5Z61/2 from Southall - Westbury and back on Wednesday Night/Thursday Morning (28th/29th), turning and presumably watering at Westbury for about an hour in the small hours. Could be 6100 and support coach? (And possibly WCRC diesel for insurance?)

There have been suggestions that it could be 35028, Clan Line. However, as this is usually a EWS/DBS-operated loco based at Stewarts Lane, I have doubts about that.