6100 Royal Scot

Sometimes we lose sight of the real issue. The issues with 6100 are real and will take many people and a lot of money to put right. Just think about how long and how much it takes to strip out a set of wheels, measure up, set up the parts to machine, rectify the problem and re-build. Compare that to putting on a layer of paint. If Royal Scot teaches us anything it should be to not worry about the paint but concentrate on getting the job done right.

The mechanical function of a locomotive is totally disconnected to the shade of colour

 

Aye, there are a few more of us matey :wink:

 

How about a poll?

Authenticist - prefer BR green or black
Aesthete - prefer correct shade of "LMS red"
Explorer - prefer BR express blue
Pragmatist - no real preference, any of the above
Dissident - none of the above, prefer last year's strawberry

I hope the Mods will create such a poll, to prevent exponential growth on this thread.

 

What is going on here defeats me too!

And me too, Frank!

Let's face it, with those now involved in the engine’s future, realistically, is (4)6100 likely to spend much (if, indeed, any) time at all operating in 46115's current stamping grounds anyway? Therefore, the issue of two identically-liveried locomotives, perhaps competing for the same work, potentially is unlikely to arise.

For those that like the red - and I do count myself as being one ... if it is appropriately utilised - at the present time we do have the opportunity to view on the main line LMS maroon Princess Royals, LMS maroon Jubilees, and the inevitable likelihood (eventually) of a returning LMS maroon Coronation, so why is there so much resistance to painting 46100 in its technically correct livery?

Back in ’78, or thereabouts, we saw 6115 in LMS black and a few positive observations were murmured (just like the current proposals for 6233, I might be so bold as to contend), but I would just ask the anti-green lobby to reflect for a moment upon the sheer ecstasy expressed by so, so many when the gleaming green 46115 appeared on display at the Carnforth Open Day!

I was one of those line-siding at the Llangollen S.S.&S. Gala last year and I didn’t hear one single positive comment about 6100’s paintwork from anyone at all. In fact, all that was said was that 6100 sounded like a ‘bag of nails’, but that is quite another matter!

 

I think it's time we sent 1-5-5: Shunt livery topic to allow a following topic to pass ;-)

Can anyone explain how difficult a job it is to correct the misalignment of the driving wheels, please? It's obviously quite a big job to remove the motion and driving wheels beforehand, then refit everything afterwards, but is the actual problem fix straight forward or complex? What actually has to happen? Are the wheel/axle assemblies themselves OK? Is there enough room in the frame cut-outs where the axle-boxes are mounted (horn-guides??) to reposition the axle boxes on one (or both) sides? Or will these cut-outs have to be enlarged on one edge?

TIA

 

Eh????

Do you want to revisit that Martin?

 

Just how many people on here were actually linesiding or whatever when a Scot in BR green was around?

I wasn't and I'm mid-50's. So therefore the majority I wouild say have no real life recollections, other than images they've seen. We've got 6115 in BR green, and it looks fine, so why do we need another one? Let's have a bit of variety eh?

 

Can we have that as a forum slogan? :smile:

 

If loco owners recreated my steam spotting days you'd be hard pushed to tell what the livery was under the rust and grime.
Livery debates will always go round in circles and what pleases one will not always please another. Many locos running are not in an "authentic" mechanical state as mods have been made for operational convenience, operational necessity etc. but as long as it looks right then few people complain that "it never had a drop grate - or whatever - in BR days" but as soon as the paint is applied then we all pile in to yet another debate on colour. If historical accuracy is to be truly achieved then it goes far beyond the paint job.

 

That's because the know-alls only notice colours... Very good point about rust and grime though - "I want it to look like it did when I saw it in the 60s" - yeah, right!

 

I depends how much damage has been done, the driving wheelset alingment is pritty critical. Just sorting out the wheelset could only be the tip of the iceberg anything that attaches to the driving wheelset such as the coupling rods could be wrong or damaged. You could tell by the awful row coming out the chimney it was putting the valve events well out. Plus if the couldn't get this pritty fundamental thing right then its worth making sure the rest is ok. The fact that all the drving wheelsets have been removed suggests the good people at crewe are doing that.

As for historical accuracy why get hung up on the colour of the engine, what about the airbrakes TPWS the fact its pulling a rake of MK2 coaches on a route it never ran on.

Tim

 

Make that 6, looking forward to riding behind her on the big railway.

Jim S

 

I can only speak for myself, but I'm guessing you'll find that the majority who support seeing a Scot in maroon actually wouldn't object if the loco had been turned out in Green or Black. I suspect that there'd actually be very little "resistance to painting 46100 in its technically correct livery" from those people. They are just pleased to see her out in any livery.

Personally, I'm very happy that we'll get to see a Scot in a different livery to 46115 and while maroon may not be strictly authentic, it is a pretty appropriate livery for an LMS passenger loco to wear, even if it never did in its current guise. I certainly wouldn't be complaining if it was turned out in BR Green or LMS Black as long as it was running. It seems to me that most livery threads revolve around locos not painted in BR, but there are far fewer complaints when locos are turned out in BR rather than pre-nationalised liveries. Of course, a reasonable number of locos can't wear anything but BR colours and be authentic, but then how often is a mainline train actually authentic? Maroon Mark 1's with WCRC branding are about as good as it gets but hardly authentic, with most rakes being unauthentic multicoloured combinations. The lineside infrastructure looks nothing like the 60s with continuous welded rails and far greater ballast covering, electrification, etc. etc. It's all a compromise.

 

Maybe if you want to recreate in great detail the era of BR steam in the 60s, you should stick to modelling? If you want to experience a steam loco working, stop worrying about the colour.

 

Interesting as Midland Red was the Birmingham based bus company originally owned by the LMS; it had its base at Smethwick ( sometimes pronounced SMERRICK ) where it had major workshops to build its own buses under the BMMO ( Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co ) designation. The BMMO works operated until the mid 1960s when Leyland began to provide complete buses .

More to the point was the info I was told at SSSII that the red livery of 6100 was the correct shade but missing the numerous coats of varnish that would provide the accurate shade of LMS red which would satisfy most line-siders.

 

How about a compromise, BR Maroon anyone ?

 

Smethwick was pronounced "Smerrick"? Gerroff! I was brought up in the outskirts of Birmingham and never heard it pronounced that way. "Smethick" is the only way I've ever heard it pronounced.

 

I lived and worked in Wednesbury for about 5 years in the late 70's and often heard "Smerrick" and "Brummagem" and all sorts of other odd phrases. It was, of course, particularly noticeable to me as being a Northern lad I had to pay great attention to what was being said to me in order to make a correct translation into the Queens English so that I could understand properly. Smerrick was not to be found in my phrase book...............