6201 Lizzie overhaul thread

I'd be surprised if it's anything other than LMS Maroon, I thought many involved with 6201 share Brell Ewarts view that anyone not in favour of Maroon should be convicted of war crimes.

Funnily enough the calendar just to my right has a painting of 46210 in BR Blue gliding into Euston for February.

 

According to Mr Mojonnier they cannot paint it anything other than red as its in the society constitution. Although personally I think its time for a change...

 

I agree. Why does 6201 have to forever be in LMS maroon? It would create more interest in the loco if it returned as 46201 in BR green, or even in unauthentic (for this member of the class) BR blue. Newly overhauled locos are undoubtably more interesting when they carry a different livery/emblems when returned to traffic. It doesn't have to be permanent. In my opinion, the 6201 society are missing a trick here......

 

Alternatively its their engine and they decide what colour its painted

 

Easy enough to arrange. Get a quote from Heritage Painting for the colour of your choice, then send it and a cheque made out for the same amount to Clive and see if he cashes it. Simples!

 

Undoubtably?? Any evidence? Especially evidence that relates to actual income. I for one most certainly doubt it. After all interest from amateur lineside photographers is effectively worthless.

Just as legitimate to speculate that being one of a minority of locos in LMS red is going to be more interesting than being just another loco that looks the same as all the others if all we have is speculation.

 

I think a few years ago someone did just that and they even offered to repaint it Red afterwards too but they were turned down.

 

Nice to hear that cladding panels are being fitted, since that shows they're well into the reassembly. The colour of the new panels tells us nothing - it's just to stop corrosion! OTOH, anything that gets the loco talked about, and maybe brings in a few late donations, is good.

This overhaul has been remarkably swift. Think back a few years. There were all sorts of stories about her possible future - lack of funds, lack of volunteers, founder members getting too old and infirm to contemplate another overhaul... Retirement to York or Barrow Hill seemed a real possibility. Now here we are, a little over 2 years after the end of her last mainline stint, bickering about what colour we'd paint her, given the choice. Hats off to the 6201 volunteers and the denizens of Tyseley Loco Works, and to all those who have come up with the funds to get her to this stage.

Personally, I'd be surprised, and a little disappointed, if she's out-shopped in anything other than LMS crimson, but we said the same about (4)6233 a few years ago. I suppose some version of wartime black, or workshop grey, might be applied during running-in...?

 

This is NP! Union Rules state that any loco that has a choice of liverys must have at least 2 pages of Froth on here! As you say Steamage its far more important that we have a working machine back with us. My own preference would be for it to be in somthing that means it carries a 4 in front of the 6 but I accept its owners perogotive to paint it what they like, LMS Maroon in this example. So in that case is there any chance we could see it on the SVR with the LMS set?

 

Makes sense and explains why it has remained in that livery. There is one other Princess preserved, perhaps Princess Margaret Rose could fly the flag for other liveries?

Undoubtedly it would be nice to see other liveries in preservation which are not BR - or in my view, early, experimental BR would be nice too - but is there any substitute for the magnificence of the pre nationalistaion liveries? Apple green, Crimson Lake, deep bronze green and malachite. All wonderful colours, I'd like to see more of them around. Thank goodness 60163 returns in apple green this year.

 

6201 on 9 LMS Staniers all in matching livery. Naughty man...

 

Yep, that's true. It wouldn't have costed the society a penny, and they would've got a fair bit of money from photo charters, but they still turned it down.

 

Isn't the history behind 6201 and her story mean anything to anyone?

 

My friend who's a (diesel)l loco owner had said if that had been him and his group they'd have bitten yours and Bobs hands off Martin. As he said 2 free repaints and the publicity it generated would have been fantastic. As I say its their loco so its up to them. But for someone like myself who hasn't seen a green 'Lizzie'... Well it'd be nice wouldn't it?!!

 

Yes, it would be nice to see her in green for a while. To someone who HAS seen a green lizzie it would bring back a lot of fond memories, just as 46233 has done. But, it's their engine and up to them to decide the colour.
I'm just thankful for all the mainline steam we have these days, whatever the colour. What we have now, in my eyes, is unbelievable compared to what we had 45 years ago....zilch!

 

Bang on 46233 the only green 'Big Lizzie' I've seen 6235 and nice as it is to see, you can't beat one with a fire in its belly and for that we are extremly lucky in this little island of ours with the choice and variety we have. But as we are rather spoiled we always want that little bit more dont we...

 

an update!
http://www.6201.co.uk/Report050215.htm

 

This is rubbish, please explain how sending a cheque and a quote to Clive to pay Heritage Painting has any commercial benefit to 6201. If you wanted to repaint 6201 twice PROPERLY (ie not a quick slapdash job with paint that is going to fall off after 6 months) you are going to have to invest the best part of £25,000 to get it done. Now let's examine who are the major beneficiaries of all this.
The painters get a very substantial lump of money after they have shelled out for the materials
The so called sponsors get a whole load of gratification out of subscribing the money for the benefit of their photographic persuasions, probably none of which goes to support the loco due to the cost of the paint job.
Several private railways get a whole load of revenue running photographic charters. That is why they do it because it supports their income stream.
The loco gets maybe half a dozen days steaming fees before interest decays and the circus moves on to the next makeover. Net result loco possibly makes £5000 and accrues 6 days wear and tear on a private railway.

They are listed in the above order because that seems to me the ranking of benefit with the loco coming a poor last, and making far less return than a day's use on the main line. That one day on the main line in turn provides far less hassle and work for the support crew who inevitably end up managing the loco on photo charters for nothing, again to the benefit of others not the loco. The other down side is the loco has to be stopped twice for two or three weeks for each paint job.

As Martin has pointed out the question of LMS Crimson Lake is enshrined in the society's constitution and it is pretty clear on the colour which the loco was to be preserved in. The fact that there was no mention of actually making the loco work is a quite clear indication of where the priorities lay when the society was formed in the early 60's by Roger Bell and his associates. To my mind the commercial value of any such proposal is negligible in the overall economy of trying to maintain such locomotives in working order on the main line. Whilst I cannot of course speak with any authority on behalf of the Lizzie society, I can say that we at Tyseley had over the years a number of far from satisfactory experiences with the photographic repaint fraternity, which culminated in the deeply unsatisfactory transformation of 5593 into some utterly inaccurate rendering of BR green with a subsequent failure to return it to a "High quality LMS maroon livery despite promises to do so. Since that time we have steadfastly discounted any such changes to livery which is why our loco's are given high quality paint jobs in the colour which we want. Done properly these paint jobs last for many years, 4965's for instance now being almost 18 years old,; I doubt if any of these photographic lash ups would last anywhere near as long, as such quality takes time and money to achieve.

As for 6201 I am sure that it is quite clear that those who have a concern for the loco and would like to see it working again will stick their hands in their pockets and make a donation to finish the job and get it going, whilst those who just want to indulge their fantasies about blue, black, or green engines will not make donations and just keep on complaining. I am sure that there are those who will say that the variety of liveries will encourage more work but in our experience of main line work that is a complete fallacy that is worth little in financial terms, what matters is how they work!

Donations please to 6201 Princess Elizabeth Locomotive Society, c/o 39 Newton Street, Millom, Cumbria, LA18 4DR

Best Regards
Bob Meanley
Trustee 6201