6201 Princess Elizabeth

From my experience with them, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case....

That said, as usual, most people on here seem to think that any percieved problems are down to the colour of the paint, rather than anything more fundamental....

 

Last ever? Self destruct?
Be serious man. You can only rationally use that language if they were going to take her to the scrapyard and apply the gas axe...

 

Without suggesting this has any similarity with 6201's future, didn't NELPG express doubts about returning Blue Peter to the main line again due to the team being the wrong side of whatever age main line operating stops being fun?

 

Okay then, look at it this way.

Well, as anybody who knows the Crewe contingent, and we at Crewe know who they are, some of the comitee have decided that when the mainline ticket expires next spring, they have no will to overhaul it ever again, they just want it to be a static exhibit now.
They offered it to the NRM who have said they dont want it.
Another mainline operator offered to overhaul it at his cost and operate it was also told no.
What a shame, such a beautifull loco being sidelined beacause certain of their members would rather polish it an gloat over their selfishness, and deprive our movement of one of the finest locomotives ever, at their selfish whim.

 

Are there any plans to return Princess Margaret Rose to use?

 

Sounds about right. Like I said, from my experience with them, I would not be surprised if that's what happened.

 

Isn't she even going to see her 10 year out on preserved lines???

 

If true that is disgusting, if you had the loco's best interests at heart surely you'd sell/loan it to someone who can look after/run it than have it stuffed and mounted when you are no longer capable of doing it yourself.

Im sure there would be more than a few interested parties if a Princess Royal ever became availible, ownership should be secondary to the loco's own mechanical state of well being, otherwise what was the point in preserving to bloody thing.

Seems a few people would rather maintain stubborn ego's here than do what's best for the locomotive, LMS express loco's are pretty thin on the ground anyway, when 6233 is due it's overhaul there is the scenario of NO OPERATIONAL Stanier Pacifics.

 

Why should a locomotive owning group give up ownership of the loco just because they no longer wish to operate it?

 

Unlikely to happen IMHO.

Thornbury Castle is i believe the only loco he is likely to put money into, hence the sale of Scots Guardsman and Britannia to new owners.

There is more chance of Jeremy Hosking taking it on than Pete Waterman i would have thought.

 

They don't have to, they could loan it to someone who can operate it, it just seems to defy the purpose of preservation to stuff and mount it when it doesn't need be so.

Suppose for example Mr Hosking was interested (remember this is an example not fact), where is the logic in rather having it on a plinth somewhere slowly rotting away ?.

 

The owners of a locomotive are under no obligation to operate it, sell or loan it to anyone else in order for them to do so, or do anything else that they don't wish to do. Any locomotive owner is perfectly entitled to conclude that static display is the best way forward, so long as there are no conflicting clauses in a Trust deed or any other mandatory constraints. Static display of a formerly operational locomotive might seem a shame to us onlookers, but that doesn't make it illogical.

 

Hmm. Very fond of this loco and would be pleased to see it back on the North Wales Coast. With the greatest of respect for what the owning group have achieved over a very long period and on limited means, this all sounds like a failure to plan effectively for continuity or an exit strategy (which may raise wider issues not limited to 6201). Is there a long list of flourishing support groups for static exhibits?

 

Who's talking about rotting away? In the right place, properly inhibited and protected before being mothballed for a while, there ought to be minimal detroration over a long period. With it looking as if hard times could be coming for any kind of leisure industry, such a locomotive might be in a far better place as far as putting her on the track in in twenty years time than one that's kept running as the moey runs out and then there's no money for decent static preservation.

 

When 6201 returned in 2002 it was clearly announced that this owning group would NOT be undertaking any further overhauls.

That return cost over £400k so despicable comments about selfishness on the part of people who have put forty five years of their lives into the loco say more about the green eyed monster than they do about the ebbing away of the capacity and commitment to keep doing it all over again into one's dotage.

If the NRM have said "not interested" then that is appalling - but there again - their recent track record has been anything but praiseworthy outside sheer money grubbing.

Let's hope for some final opportunities to see her run again before her ticket runs out - but after that - its Clive and Co's say, and no-one else's.

 

I've no problem with the Society doing what it thinks is best for the loco, but it would be a shame if there was someone out there willing and able to take it on as a runner and they stood in the way of that - it might not necessarily have to change hands in terms of ownership. After 45 years of keeping it running I'm surprised that the society doesn't want to maintain that record by allowing someone else to take the responsibility. We present day preservationists are only the temporary custodians waiting for the next generation!

 

61624 your statment

"We present day preservationists are only the temporary custodians waiting for the next generation!"

Is absolutlety spot on

 

Perhaps i should have chosen the words in my previous post a bit more carefully, but i still maintain my original point to a certain extent.

The 6201 lads (the society full name escapes me at the moment) needs to ask themselves what they would prefer:

A) A static exhibit which they own but requires covered accomedation for a lengthy period of time.

B) An operational Ex LMS Princess Royal class pacific locomotive which they saved from scrap in the 60's and lovingly maintained into the 21st century.

Without wishing to knock the NRM, i believe the best way to put someone off taking an interest in steam is to take them to York, you can't appreciate the power and wow factor of steam with static exhibits, a static exhibit is basically 120 tons of metal, a steam loco thundering past at 70MPH turns heads, i just believe stuffing and mounting Lizzie is a sure fire way to diminish interest in the locomotive and it would be in everyones best interests to try and keep her running.

 

I well remember back in school in 1963, a teacher and enthusiast brought in a box of B&W photgraphs of the

'Princess Royal' class which he sold to raise funds to save 'Lizzie' from the scrapyard.

I still have those pictures and hadn't realised until just know how far back the PELS actually goes. So well done to them.

However, i still believe for a coat of BR Brunswick paint, further interest albeit it short term might help generate much

needed funds which could be held for a future overhaul.

One thing is for certain, they 'aint going to get any cheaper as the years roll on.