62712 Morayshire Coming Back To England In The Autumn 2014

It was suggested by a photo charter organiser ( not the one Martin is referring) that it would need to visit two railways to make it viable due to the haulage costs.

Since a number of railways have stated the theme of their gala, and some of their proposed visitors, this limits where it likely to visit.

 

Come on Martin, you are better than doing your rivals down by spreading unsubstantiated rumours. A lot of people like the new era of competition and organisation that recent entrants to the photo charter market have brought, there are things that yourself could learn.

 

Well the chap in question has managed to get exclusivity on one railway at least so where's the "new era of competition" there?

 

For a variety of reasons I doubt if the NYMR is likely to feature in any English tour.

I think many of us know that, unfortunately.

 

Where it has also previously been - in fact it was the first English Heritage Line to be visited

 

I was considering the whole photo charter sector than one specific railway. New entrant into the market means increased competition.

 

There is also the issue of number of photo charters e.g. When the T9 visited Swanage

There were 7 photo charters 6 which featured the T9.

5 nr by the organiser in question
2 other organiser did 1 each. Another who wanted to do one, didn't because there were too many.

About a week before there were still places on 5 days. One of the other organisers only broke even on the day, since people booked the last minute because of a good weather forecast.

Some of the people who have being doing it for years have told me they have to be more selective on the ones they do, due to the increased number of charters.They have noticed a lot of people new to charters over the last few years, but the majority of these are working age ( limited time off and disposable income) and even with these new people( which includes me) they will not necessary fill up all the charters on offer.

 

It's unsurprising to see an established charter organiser complain about competition in the market, I'm sure every business in the country takes the same attitude when new entrants emerge.

Perhaps your two organisers should ask themselves why they never got a deal done when someone else could? It's always easier to blame someone else though isn't it?

 

Not if said operator negotiates an exclusivity deal with a railway thereby prevent any other organiser from operating there. Photo charters aren't supposed to be about competition anyway, they're supposed to be about raising money for the heritage movement but sadly at least one and probably two organisers now do it for profit. I'm only an occasional player these days but over the years I have experienced a great deal of cooperation from other organisers - joint marketing etc. - and the movement as a whole benefited. It doesn't benefit as much if organisers are creaming off profits rather than ploughing them back in and trying to do down others in their pursuit of said profits.

 

Neil, you're talking rubbish.

 

There's more than one railway in the UK that you can take photographs on...

 

One of these( based in the South West) got the deal done ( I am assuming this relates to 7827 at DSR) but they were cancelled twice by the railway, once due boiler problems with the loco.

The problem is that a certain organiser is trying to dominate the market, and does not appear to be cooperating with other organisers to try and avoid clash of dates and too many charters with a particular loco.

 

Martin,

Thank you for clarifying your position, I understand where you're coming from. It's good that you wish to see the sector expand and embrace other charter organisers like Andrew Fowler.

You and I are probably never going to agree on Neil Cave. I see it from the participants point-of-view and you from the organisers. I like his charters, and yours, and others too. They're all different and all offer something unique to the photographers. I like having a choice, I don't want to see the charter world being divided up into pro and anti group regarding individuals and their charters.

Probably best to leave it.

 

Neill. Not all locos visit all railways so by avoiding some lines you will avoid their locos. Sadly by introducing a "highest bidder" angle to the charter market it will almost certainly bring higher prices and make them less affordable and thus reduce in number over time. I can recall when multiple organisers worked together to arrange visiting locos for places like Bristol Harbour and multiple charters were the result. A win, win situation for all involved. Since no one organiser has a monopoly on the number of potential participants - there are some people who support one organiser and one organiser only - I doubt any individual could organise something on such a grand scale. Newcomers to the market are nothing new - I was a newcomer once when I organised the first BBLS event back in 1996 - but not until now have we had anyone wanting to keep other organisers out of the market. A sad day IMO.

 

Is that what it would of cost to bring Maud down to York only for it to be on static display? Also moving locos between York, Shildon and Swindon is there any financial gain in doing this?

 

If you goto the same museum, frequently, and nothing has changed last time to this… people are less likely to return.
If the museum this year is different to last year.. it's not going to get stale.
Everyone wants variety.

So from numbers through the door.. Yes.
If the answer was No.. then i'm sure steam gala's would be a thing of the past for a starter.

Want to argue taking 6 A4's between York and Shildon wasn't worth while ??

 

Surprised by that to be honest, knowing enthusiasts I'd have thought beforehand they would book a charter that interests them regardless of who it's run by, I've been on very few photo charters thus far (work usually the stumbling block), but I'd never put all my eggs in one basket with one supplier.