6619

Moguls ran on the K&ESR in WW2 when it was used as a diversionary route!

 

The problem is this, if we ran to what most people expect of a light railway that would mean using the vintage set on a daily basis, with small engines and less reliant on the Mk 1s , commercially its a non starter, you lose out on the add ons such as on board catering which is the difference between running at a loss and making a profit
From a C&W view point, we have a lot of the what should be availible vintage stock un availible because of the need to repair and replace worn out componants and rotton wood as well as Mk 1s that are in need of more and more attension each time

 

As i should imagine quite a few other classes must have ran over the route , getting back to 6619 does anyone yet have any idea when she will move south
as regards looking too modern, what about the Austerities, build in the 1950's never would have ran on the line prior to preservation , it could be argued they are out of place , if you want true light railway, think what Austin would have done had the KESR not been nationalised No3 would have gone for scrap and he would have probbally tried to have get deisel rail cars to run the service with to keep costs down

 

The answer to this is five words "Isle of Wight Steam Railway" (I have no connection with the IOWSR by the way). In their case they have no heavy, uninteresting Mark 1s to get in the way and whilst it cannot have been easy to achieve, they can now turn out two whole trains of authentic branch line stock from differing periods. These vehicles are light in weight and thus do not require big, hungry engines to haul them, thus keeping down costs.

Sorry to seem a bit fierce about the KESR but having to travel in sombre painted, dull carriages when the interesting stuff is lined up in full view in the sidings did get to me rather!

P.H.

 

The K&ESR is running it's vintage train at 11.45 and and 14.20 most days during the holiday period. I had a wonderful time charging up and down the line on it yesterday -driving 'Charwelton'!

 

I think you're being a bit harsh on the K&ESR. I agree that the Isle of Wight Steam Railway is a gem, especially with Calbourne now in working order again, but it is 5 miles long, whereas the K&ESR is over 10 miles long and will be 14 miles long when Robertsbridge is reached. I cannot think of any standard gauge heritage line of more than 5 miles in length that has been able to offer ths same degree of authenticity as the IoWSR. The nearby Bluebell has had to use Mk I corridor stock since 1986, in spite of having a fine collection of pre-1948 coaches, although it is good that it does make regular use of the older stock (and its small engines). It's a shame that it isn't profitable for the K&ESR to run two steam diagrams throughout its operating season, with one diagram using the vintage set and a typcial light railway loco (i.e., a terrier or the "P" Class), but that's the harsh economics of running the line in a viable way. At least the K&ESR has SOME vintage stock, which it uses SOMETIMES. There are a good few lines where your choice is a Mark 1 or a Mark 1. the K&ESR also offers a very attractive ride through some lovely country. I lived in Sussex from 1979 until last year, but I must confess to being quite surprised the first time I went to photograph trains on the Bodiam extension after it was opened in 2000. I thought I had a pretty good feel for the county, but the stillness and beauty of that stretch of line near Ewhurst Green was a delightful and unexpected discovery. At the other end of the line is the incline into Tenterden, which is a terrific experience for traveller and linesider alike. OK, maybe an "Austerity" + 5 mk 1's (or even a GWR 0-6-2T and 5 Mk 1's, as we're meant to be talking about 6619) isn't exactly an authentic recreation of a typical Colonel Stephens Light railway train, but these points don't detract from the K&ESR's considerable charm. Paul, may I suggest you try a trip on the Wealden Pullman (taking your other half, if you have one) My wife & I celebrated our 10th anniversary on it, and even though we had the austerity Northiam for motive power, it was a terrific evening - worth every penny.

 

I don't think Mk1s are necessarily the problem in terms of damaging the feel of the place, though the vintage carriages are undoubtedly better, and in time when the Mk1s need major overhauls it might be cheaper to think in terms of 4w wagon underframes with new build but heritage look bodies, because I'd like to bet that the cost for the latter will be lower if anything (especially after the first one).

I do think that large tender locos (anything bigger than a collet goods or 4F) would affect the ambience. This line, and the IoWSR, derive a lot of their charm from the use of smaller locos, with all that implies for the train lengths, and infrastructure of the railway. It is this use of tank engines that in my view needs to be preserved, and will safeguard the KESR's feel, as it drives so many other choices.

I don't think Paul was being hard on the KESR. What they have is worth keeping, whether they are 5 miles or 25 miles long.

 

Yes I probably am being too harsh but I think you have put your finger on a couple of the problems. Firstly it is really not a Pullman Car sort of railway. Such vehicles are even heavier than Mark 1s and need a deal of horsepower to haul up 1 in 30 apart from any considerations as to whether they "fit in".

Secondly, 10 miles is too long and 14 miles will be very much too long. Apart from the view of Bodiam Castle at one end and the climb to Tenterden at the other it is not, shall we say, the most exciting of journeys. I cannot remember ever being on a steam railway where I so wanted the journey to be over with but this feeling was with me long before we got as far as Rolvenden on the return journey.

Sorry if this upsets K&ESR fans but it is an honestly held opinion. I hope 6619 does not shake her passengers about as did her sister engine at Swanage; that would really put the tin lid on things!

 

The Isle of Wight Steam railway, yes does not have any Mk1s and does use all wooden bodied stock, It also uses Army Austerities and industrials to pull them, as well as the terriers and the 02. The KESR can turn out authentic trains as well. And the isle of wight can also run unauthentic trains.

 

One of the Pullman coaches was now on the Wealden Pullman ran over the line on one of the last specials (forgotton which one) You cannot get more authentic than that.

 

Well, we agree to disagree over the pleasure of travelling between Bodiam and Rolvenden, but I do think you have a point which is relevant to the K&ESR's and RVR's future plans to run to Robertsbridge (of which the acquisition of 6619 is a part): The Robertsbridge-Bodiam section, when re-opened, should do well, with a main line connection at one end and the castle at the other, However, pretty as the journey is (in my opinion at least!) it's a long way from Bodiam to Tenterden, and while Tenterden is a good destination, being a most attractive town, will many people stay on the train for a further 10 miles? Northiam has a well-restored station, but it's a mile to the village and Wittersham Road is in the middle of nowhere. In other words, there's not much except the peaceful scenery - no dramatic viaducts or tunnels, and little reason to break the journey, apart from the Bodiam-Northiam rivr cruises which have always looked rather inviting, at least on a nice day. I'm sure I read a piece by someone quite senior at the railway (possibly the General Manager?) expressing concern that opening to Robertsbridge could turn the exisitng line into a "10-mile siding" Still, having been going for 38 years, I'm sure there are enough wise and resourceful people involved with the line to work out a way of maintaining interest along the full 14 mile route.

I also had a rather shaky ride behind 6695 at Swanage recently. I don't remember experiencing this when I travelled behind this engine 5 years ago. Hopefully it is a problem with this particular engine which can be rectified rather than something endemic to the class as a whole. Is there anyone on this forum from South Wales with a long memory?

 

I used to travel behind 56XX in the 1960s on the Valleys lines and my abiding memory of them was they were 'boxers', with a considerable fore and aft motion when they started from rest. This was most apparent in the first carriage.

 

There is quite a debate with in the railway as it is about running to Robertsbridge, some say its not worth going beyond bodiam from the Robertsbridge end and that we shouldnt even be thinking of running steam but use the demu on a shuttle with passingers having to change at Northiam , others say no run it as a full lenght service, the extension has the ability to split the railway even the management are split, the GM is against it and is fermly in the we do not run beyond Bodiam camp where as other board members take the attitude its going to happen, lets make the best of it . but this is best dealt with on another forum

 

I suspect the majority of people who visit preserved railways travel by car rather than a by train, particularly families with the cost of rail travel on the national network.
Robertsbridge being just off the A21 will mean people arriving by car may choose to start their journey there but this will be limited by the Network Rail carpark which has 120 spaces and any spare land the RVR has, if any. I suspect a lot of passengers will still start their journey at Tenterden where there is a large free carpark.

 

Northiam station has a very nice toy museum just over the road, and Great Dixter garden in the village. Okay, so it's a bit of a slog, but there may be a case to be made for some kind of bus link between the station and the garden. Tenterden is a much more attractive destination than, say, Grosmont. Come to that I dare say that Tenterden will be the KESR's Pickering to Robertsbridge's Grosmont.

 

I think that the average non-enthusiast passenger will see Mk1's as vintage - particularly compartment stock which is non-existent anywhere other than on heriatage lines.

 

Does anyone have any information as to when 6619 is going to move down from Yorkshire to Rolvenden?

 

I asked a volunteer at Northiam the other day and was told 'within six weeks'.

 

THank you.

 

I haven't been given a date for the move as yet, but the loco has been washed out and had a few other bits attended to in preparation for the move. Kevin Gould was about last weekend as well.