70000 - Cumbrian Fells Express - 30/05/2015

I've uploaded a few pictures from the day to Flickr here...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ilkestonian/

 

Many thanks for sharing, makes impressive reading, and good to see someone actually talking about the run, rather than a lot of the nonsense that has been written on this thread. Full credit to the Brits crew and the spanking condition she is in .

 

Thank you for all the positive comments about my footage from Saturday they are all very much appreciated and I would like to add that all the videos and stills from Saturday's events are all of excellent quality and thank you to everyone who shared them.

Thanks again Phil.

 

A Preston start for a trip over Shap has the advantage of allowing the loco to be properly warmed up before the hard work starts. The point has been made a few times that a loco coming off-shed at Carnforth, straight onto the train, is not ready for the banks ahead. This is especially important in situations like last Saturday when the loco is marginal for the load. IIRC, the very impressive performances by 45305 a few years ago were on summer CMEs, starting from Crewe, and so thoroughly warmed up, with a fire in very good order, by the time it reached Carnforth.

On the other hand, a Preston start is more trouble and expense for WCRC than a Carnforth start, which they will pass on to their customers. I suppose it may also require an extra loco crew if the first crew go over their allowed hours because of starting perhaps 2 hours earlier to work loco and support coach up to Preston and then waiting for the train to arrive.

 

Years ago Lancaster could have been considered for changes; I suppose that rationalisation of the layout has curtailed that as a possibility? The extra 6 miles from Lancaster to Carnforth would certainly help in 'warming up', would it not?

 

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Agree with you that there will be a cost implication. But spread over 500+ Px it should be just a few £s. The benefits you highlight plus others must be worth a small extra payment. We are now in a different environment and need to consider all options to deliver a good day out whilst ensuring safe a free running of the mainline.

 

Seems to make sense, plus would mean more steam through Lancaster!

 

When the WCME's were first proposed, the morning and afternoon loco changes were to be Preston, but I believe Network Rail could not accommodate this, without making the start time a lot earlier and the return much later than advertised.

 

I'm not sure we should be in a situation where starting a few miles further back makes a noticable difference anyway, if you were heading east from Plymouth you have no choice in the matter, straight into Hemerdon by the time you've built any reasonable speed up.

 

Not wishing to sound dismissive, but that was then. Probably not the best time to start negotiations on this but once the dust has settled and some sort of normality has resumed, where there's a will there's a way. Is the WCML that much busier between Preston and Carnforth than further North? Does not impede the Fellsman on its way down to Preston. Going South there are the Buxton Spa Express, Tin Bath and Welsh Mountaineer starting at Preston.

 

Between Preston and Carnforth you only additionally have the Barrow/Cumbrian coast trains and the infrequent Morecambe - Leeds, but at Preston itself you have to factor in additional traffic from Blackpool North & South, Blackburn and further east as well as the Ormskirk branch, all competing for space and signallers attention in the Preston area in addition to WCML traffic.

 

All of which presumably run as empty stock from Carnforth, stop at Preston to pick up passengers, and then carry on south; whereas what's being contemplated here is, even at its simplest, coming south from Carnforth with a diesel at the front and steam at the back. It would then be tempting for WCRC either to keep the diesel attached for the whole day or to stop at Carnforth to drop it off, losing the benefit of a flying start for the climbs, though at least having a good fire by then.

 

As I have said previously, this will incur an extra cost but defrayed over 500+ passengers should not be huge. The diesel could be left at Preston and reattach again on the return to Carnforth. Trying to look for a way to do it, not trying to find reasons not to. Positive mental attitude.

 

Thanks for a very full and interesting report. It's good to be able to compare lineside impressions with actual speeds. I saw both trains at Milnthorpe and 70000 was going well, faster than 45699 but not by a huge margin (guess 10 mph?); it was later in the run when the banks began to take their toll.

I regularly watch steam specials at the top of Wilpshire bank and 70000 was as quick as anything (good to know what 35mph looks like). It looked to match the best climbs of the Duchess and UoSA - they are "bigger girls" but probably had 12/13 coaches, so comparable with the best.

 

Fair point and I stand corrected. But still a lot of people to share the extra cost between.

 

You can if they congregate in the vestibules and hang out the drop lights!

 

On a more serious note I notice that the Dalesman trains include an engine and coach move to and from Carnforth and Hellifield each trip which suggests it can possibly be done (in terms of crew hours I suspect Carnforth - Preston is shorter), although the congestion at Hellifield is somewhat less than Preston.

 

Platform 7 at Preston could be pressed into service. It's a bit of unused capacity. Last time I saw it used was with Oliver Cromwell sitting in front of the Royal Train. Use of this platform would have minimal impact on the rest of the workings.

 

Royal train duty was 70000 too iirc?