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82045 The way ahead?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Kinghambranch, May 24, 2008.

  1. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Almost all the patterns for non-ferrous components for 82045 are already made within BRSLOG. Some of the patterns for ferrous castings are also available.
     
  2. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Excellent! Now I know you are all going to utter the B word, aren't you, "BOILER"! Yes, well, it is going to be the biggest hurdle for 82045 but, as has already been shown, it isn't impossible and, if (again I choose my words carefully) there is demand for several identical boilers, then it might just force the price down - remember the boiler for 82045 is almost identical to that of a 51xx and there are quite a few of those locos around so the market might just be there. I'm prepared to be very optomistic about this possibility of "mass production" until proven wrong. The little Holden F5 might also be another candidate for multiple production, it would look good on the NNR, MNR as well as on the Epping & Ongar.
     
  3. RobHickerton

    RobHickerton New Member

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    Boilers are almost all made one at a time. There are flanging blocks for the firebox that can be reused but rolling the plates and welding or riveting and fitting the stays are all labour intensive and singular jobs. I do hope someone builds a water tube firebox as advocated by Alan Haigh, the saving in stays and the fitting times for them must be substantial.

    Rob
     
  4. boldford

    boldford Member

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    And becoming increasingly comprehensive all the while.

    Didn't Gresley try it and abandon the idea?

    I, for one, would stick with the original derivative of a GW No2 boiler despite the "eye watering" high cost of arsenical copper. A proven design thus considerably simplifying the approval process.
     
  5. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    Yes he did ; the informous No 10000 in its original form.

    Water tube boilers have many advantages over fire tube types and became more or less universal in fixed land and marine applications: they are lighter and raise steam far more quickly, partly due to carrying less water. They can run at MUCH higher pressures (the pressure is inside the tubes, forcing them to expand; with a fire tube boiler the pressure acts to contract the tubes away from the tube plates) and are also easier to maintain. But they are also more delicate and do not take kindly to vibration, such as you get in a railway application.

    Basically, if you want to experiment with a water tube boiler, I'd suggest you start with a clean piece of paper as far as the rest of the engine is concerned to take full advantage of its high pressure capabilities.
     
  6. thetriangman

    thetriangman New Member

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    New builds are fine if we don't have to destroy existing loco's to make them. Take the Patriot and Hawksworthy Country project for instance. The last surviving Doncaster 8F built under licence by the LNER has been ripped apart to provide parts for these two projects, surely that's just wanton destruction. The LNER is very poorly represented as it is and now we have lost another LNER built loco although of LMS design.

    The A1 project for me is what it is all about, a brand new build. I would support a build of a BR standard 82000 class if it were a new build like the A1 and not a pile of bits ripped from an existing loco worthy of preserving in it's own right.
     
  7. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, 82045 will be a complete "new build" with perhaps a few minor items sourced from original locomotives - the centre pair of driving wheels came from ex-Barry Scrapyard loco 76080 - which was cut up at Barry (the wheels survived as a walkway ornament), the buffers possibly from an 08 diesel but of the correct type, a chimney from long scrapped 77014, smaller fittings from collectors such as lamp irons, handles and so on. Much of 82045 will indeed be brand new. I believe "Tornado" also has a couple of "original" parts as well.
     
  8. boldford

    boldford Member

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    The following is my opinion only and may not reflect the collective view of the 82045 Fund http://www.82045.org.uk/

    Indeed much of 82045 will be brand new. There is some debate regarding using the wheels from 76080 as, in common with the Ivatt Cl4s (a.k.a. 43106), from which the design was derived, they only have 16 spokes and are balanced for the motion of the Class 4 machine they came from.
    As the guy making the pattern for the driving/driven wheels I've had the "pleasure" of making 17 spokes for it. http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/bridgnorth_p ... _2008.html
    The use of the chimney from 77014 may also in doubt as I'm informed it has a number of cracks that have been welded. Possible best use may be as a heavyweight collecting tin.
     
  9. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Boldford,

    Many thanks for the information regarding 82045, much appreciated. I never cease to be amazed at what the SVR pattern shop can do! Foreat Vapor!
     
  10. 80079isbest

    80079isbest New Member

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    i am due to do a sponsored cycle ride at the end of this month or the start of next month. i will be putting my sponsor forms along the valley at each of the stations very soon. all proceeds go towards the construction of 82045. i will be doing over 70 miles aswell.
     
  11. chopshopjohn

    chopshopjohn New Member

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    Water tube boilers are only suitable when used in a closed water circuit installation where pure water can be used, condensed and re-cycled. Using normal mains water the tubes quickly scale up, overheat and burst as the LMS found with 'Fury'.
     
  12. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, which is exactly what happens in marine and land-based use. Similar comments might apply to a turbine, despite the comparative success of 6202. Condensers on a locomotive have never been blessed with success though!
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Nobody must have mentioned this fact to Sentinel, then!
     
  14. RobHickerton

    RobHickerton New Member

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    Alan Haigh's design isn't a water tube boiler, but uses tubes as the firebox. If you imagine the sides of a conventional firebox are a pair of plates a few inches apart with the space filled with water.

    Now imagine that replaced by a series of tubes (in his design 127mm o/d) connecting to a larger diameter bottom header (his description is water wall) and into a water/steam space above. By this means (and he has done all the design in detail) all the side and backhead stays are eliminated, all is steel and welded.

    I recommend his booklet ( The LNER class B1 locomtive boiler - a technical study) available from the author.

    Rob
     
  15. chessie

    chessie Active Member

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    Would the reverse osmosis plants, as found on the MHR and , I believe, the SVR, alleviate this problem?
     
  16. boldford

    boldford Member

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    We do have RO plants and I'm glad to see the thread is getting vaguely back on topic. I.e. SVR/82045
     
  17. chessie

    chessie Active Member

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    Well I'm glad you're glad.
     
  18. mick wilson

    mick wilson Member

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    Different animal completely.
     
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    South African Railways Class 25 anyone?
     
  20. Sponge Cake

    Sponge Cake New Member

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    wasn't it the SVR who first installed the RO plants and developed the water treatment to suit with great success which now monitors the water quality and supplies the MHR with its treatment?
     

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