850 Lord Nelson

Coloured stuff, or maybe some bullshit could do the job depending on the accounts!

 

well i did once see a picture of a narrow gauge ex-WD engine in india which had a very leaky smokebox door. the solution used by the enterprising enginemen? fill the craks in with what we would call wattle; literally a combination of straw and s**t, it has its uses

 

Yet another useless remark from this 'member'. Go breath your smoke over someone elses board.

 

Neil, just ignore him mate!

 

Pipesmoker #-o [-X =; :-$ :-#

 

Yes, he's only trying to distract attention away from my post about my Lord Nelson DVD. ;-) Actually, this thread was getting a bit of a heavy atmosphere - we could all do with lightening up a little. It's Friday, after all...

 

I have just posted a new page on my web site giving some details of my video about Lord Nelson, "The Hero's Return". I've included 14 stills from the HDV footage. Work is still in progress, so things may change a little before it is finished. I think I'm on target to have it ready by the end of November.

 

Is Lord Nelson at the National Railway Museum yet? If it isn't will it be there by next Sunday?

 

Was there on Saturday when I went - sitting in the workshop area behind Flying Scotman's frames

 

Thanks!

 

Was there on tuesday night, when i walked past it!

 

The boiler was in the workshops.

Cladding has been taken off as has the cab roof- so the diagnosis has obviously begun

Good luck to those involved in getting her back

 

Will she get a new boiler or will the NRM patch up the old one again ](*,) if the old boiler is repaired are they just wasting more money and just putting off the inevitable. ](*,)

 

Judging by the current conservation policy, it will probably be the repair option.

Regards,

Dan

 

A brand new welded boiler should be the only option if people want steam engines like 850 to be around in the long term; besides the point of who is going to be repairing these things in 30 years + but who are the insurance companies going to get to insure them? Its asking for trouble, as far as i see it traditional boilers will just become so expensive welded will be the only choice - except that every railway and loco owner will be having the same problems which will only make money raising harder. The question is, is this due to there being so many 40-50 years old in preservation who cant see beyond their own lifespan, including the people at the NRM? They need to preserve operational steam for the future as much as static exhibits surely...

Chris

 

Providing that the working boilers are safe why wouldn't insurance companies insure them? Plenty examples of this happen from day-to-day in the preservation world. Perhaps when a brand new firebox is required that an insurance company will be persuaded that a welded box is better than a riveted one. However we don't seem to have reached that juncture just yet.

It is hard to reconcile the two different philosophies of the heritage railway world: those who wish to run and those who wish to exhibit. One must accept that the NRM are a national museum not like an ordinary heritage railway and must act accordingly. Should the NRM withdraw all its steam engines from operational condition then the industry would not sink; there are enough stars in the galaxy to support it.

 

Why should a brand new welded boiler be the only option? There is nothing wrong with repairing an existing boiler, nor is there anything wrong with providing a new boiler, be it riveted or welded. At the end of the day it is down to choice and economics, that's all. There's no such thing as a boiler that is beyond repair. There is such a thing as a boiler that is beyond economic repair. If if the NRM wanted the exisitng boiler repaired, that's fine. It would probably just cost more. Whilst the problems with 850's boiler have not been made public I doubt that they are anything to do with age, more probably materials or workmanship of the repair (but I'm guessing there). In my time I've replaced boilers that simply wanted retubing because the economics of down time dictated that it was the most economical option. Nothing to do with age or general condition. I've also been involved with new welded boilers (not loco ones) that have cause problems and had to be rectified under warranty. It's relatively common. I suspect that the crux of the matter more than anything is who is paying for the rectification of the faults on 850's boiler?

 

I am sure those at the NRM (including their boiler inspector)will know best how to tackle repairs.
As long as "Nellie" is soon back in steam that is that matters, we should congratulate the NRM for allowing this loco be returned to steam.
I am sure she will soon be back, but I would guess 4472 will emerge first.

Stan the man

 

The problem is that the NRM have a requirement to preserve as well, this will lead to the decision being made in favour of keeping as much of the original material and workmanship as is possible. That is why the locomotive had as much of the current boiler preserved during the recent overhaul. Whereas many other groups may well have fitted a complete inner firebox, the NRM will have only half-sides renewed. (Note: I cannot remember all the politics of the recent overhaul and my statement on the state of 850's boiler may well be wrong). So the NRM (unless they are fully committed to have the exhibit steam) will keep as much of the original as possible and decide not to go ahead with the work if too much of the original material and workmanship is to be lost. They will also probably only go for "like for like" replacement, if you replace a riveted copper inner firebox with a steel all welded substitute you have lost the original design. I am afraid there is more at stake in this case.

Personally I think they ought to replace the whole boiler with a modern build and store the original at York. This would get the engine on the mainline for people to experience (what I believe is) the only standard gauge locomotive with 8 beats to the bar and what is left of the original material and workmanship of the boiler is retained for future generations.

(That all sounds a bit pompous, doesn’t it 8-[ :roll: )

 

some people don't seem to be grasping the fact that a new boiler does not end the problems. the same problem 850 has could have occured with a brand new boiler.