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9466 or 9600 on the Cambrian Coast?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by lewis.maddox, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. maureen

    maureen Member

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    I have been to north Wales for holidays many times and have enjoyed the narrow gauge railways and the Cambrian Coast steam, I also enjoy the beautiful mountain scenery, I have not came across any offhand or unwelcome talk from the locals, you can get bad food and service anywhere NOT just Wales, as for New York you can keep it never want to go there, I am going to North Wales again this year for the Cambrian Coast steam, and I know I will enjoy it.
     
  2. steamingyorkshire

    steamingyorkshire Well-Known Member

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    I quite agree, we've also visited Wales since a young boy every year and the locals are very friendly, even the younger ones ;)
    The Cambrian was just a bonus for us last year, and quite a few years ago when 76079 did a light engine test run.
    As for the weather, yes the weather can be quite unpleasant down there at times but when the sun comes out, my word it's hot!

    As with anything not everyone likes the same thing which i respect, Wales is never going to be everyone's cup of tea.
     
  3. 8-10 Brass Cleaner

    8-10 Brass Cleaner Member

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    LMAO, you wont find any locals in the 'Cambrian Coast', there all from Brumaggem........
     
  4. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    ](*,) ](*,)
     
  5. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I agree to a certain extent, we thought previous technical advances would be the end and they haven't, whether it's possible or not it won't be for lack of trying im sure.
     
  6. 5596

    5596 Member Account Suspended

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    Made my day - absolutely made my day!!!! Libellous - racist - any other epithets you want to chuck this way while you are at it???

    If the tourist industry in a certain country is bobbins what am I supposed to call it??? Its Bobbins and its in Wales - so its Welsh - get over it!

    Why is it Bobbins??

    Because its choice is rubbish - chips and burgers with everything - and "meal times" opening only - if you can get served under two hours that is!

    "Why are you in this room?" - your staff put us here because one of us is wheelchair bound

    £138 to stay in a room furnished with sixties tat because the hotel lives off the view, and at the same place - Welsh Black ragout - mince with a puff pie top straight out of the freezer. Never again!

    Its hours are rubbish - "its gone eight - no you can't have an ice cream sundae - you can have a cone"

    Last year at Llangollen "I'm sorry the card machine is downstairs" then when we got downstairs "I'm sorry we don't take cards for under £40" I had to leave because I wondered what else they took cash for in those lacy uniforms, and was giggling too much by that time

    And the best - a quote from a Welsh lass in a restaurant in Barmouth after the two hours without service episode "Its crap here in't it?"

    She said it!

    If you are complacent about that, then your industry will die - as it is doing - which is a tragedy, because as I said above - the scenery is world class.

    And no - I am not new to Wales - I have been going there since the mid 50's and its a tragedy to see it withering - but with those experiences!!!

    Still - they make a fund of after dinner tales and a damned good laugh - and every one the one hundred per cent unvarnished truth.
     
  7. Ben Fisher

    Ben Fisher Member

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    Um, you can find excellent hotels and bobbins hotels in most areas, sometimes they're even next door to each other... the trick is choosing wisely, or changing hotel, if possible, if it isn't up to scratch on arrival. While it's sadly the case that some very good hotels on the Cambrian Coast have gone to the wall over the past ten years or so (what used to be the classiest hotel in Barmouth is now apartments), and others have trouble finding Summer staff, it sounds like 5596 missed out on some excellent options (not stuck in the 1960s) which are available within a few miles.
     
  8. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    Isn't there a McDonald's in Dolgelley now?

    Certainly there's one in Newtown
     
  9. Gwenllian2001

    Gwenllian2001 Member

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    Ben is right, of course. This sweeping condemnation of facilities in Wales could equally apply to England (ever been to Minehead?); Scotland or anywhere else. I could tell you some real horror stories about English B&Bs, without resorting to racism, but they are not all bad and it would be unfair to condemn a whole industry.

    Meic Batten
     
  10. nhthompson

    nhthompson New Member

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    So, serious question; please can you - or anyone - recommend some good hotels in N Wales along Barmouth - Pwllheli stretch? I would like to go, but my social secretary says, "we are not going there because there is nowhere nice to stay", and the thought of proving her right makes me unwilling to take a chance.
     
  11. maureen

    maureen Member

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    This thread is supposed to be about steam on the Cambrian Coast, instead it has turned into a slanging and racist discussion against the Welsh, can we please get back to what this forum is about STEAM!!!? Thing is if you don't like Wales or the Welsh people don't go, I don't like New York so I don't go there but I certainly would'nt start a slanging discussion about New York people..
     
  12. weltrol

    weltrol Part of the furniture Friend

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    i travelled on the Cambrian in 2007, and on arrival in Porthmadog, there was basically only time to go to the WHR (P) shop, a quick walk to Harbour station, a very quick meal, and a dash back to the mainline for the train. Is that not supporting the local economy?
    The wait at Machynlleth on the outward and return legs was more of a problem, in that the the station is uncomfortably outy of reach of the town in the time you are stuck there.

    However, my earlier comment on ERTMS being a 'waste of time and money' seems to have rattled a cage or two.
    As someone else pointed out, the infrastructure has already been pruned and decimated. Radio signalling replaced Token instruments and semaphores, passing loops vanished, double track was singled, stations closed, and staff vanished. Is ERTMS going to improve that side of the Cambrian? I doubt it.

    ATP , TPWS and OTMR are already in use and supposedly reliable. Radio signalling has vastly improved from the early days, and proven flexible and adaptable enough for the line, so why add another dimension? Reading into the link to ERTMS, they claim to cover Eire, but as that is 5'3" gauge, through running to the UK and rest of Europe is not an option, so defeating the claim for common signalling practice.

    As much as improvements are needed elsewhere on the national railway system, could not the money have been better used to improve existing and provide more services on the Cambrian line, to add or replace passing loops, and keep what is undoubtedly one of the best scenic lines in the country running?

    Yes I would, if I could, send the Dukedog backup the coast, along with a couple of Manors,BR standard 4's, Small Praries and a Dean Goods for proper effect, along with some proper rolling stock. A couple of Panniers would add even more interest.


    And some proper DMU's so we could really appreciate the view, please?
     
  13. Ben Fisher

    Ben Fisher Member

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    Don't think there is (but they do tend to spring up overnight), and even if there was, they'd probably do what the GWR never could, and spell Dolgellau accurately... #-o
     
  14. Ben Fisher

    Ben Fisher Member

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    Not sure this is the appropriate place for specific plugs, but by way of hints, there's a rather well regarded hotel at a famous Italianate village not that far from two Cambrian stations, and at least one reputed to be worth a serious look on the south side of the estuary that the first is on the north side of; or further south in the Barmouth-ish area, perhaps look around either end of a short road toll bridge over the Mawddach.
     
  15. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    RETB is old, probably equipment needs replacing at some point soon, and there is a need for a testbed location to assess ERTMS use in the UK - its been decided that the Cambrian fits the bill.

    Dont forget, ERTMS is not just about allowing inter-operation, as useful as that is - its about making sure that when capacity enhancements and new lines require cab signalling, that a common type is used. Not only does this ease cross-border trains but it saves a lot of money developing a single, common, technology - for example ETCS (core component of ERTMS) is already being used on a HSL in China and will likely be used on other HSL lines around the world too.

    Chris
     
  16. weltrol

    weltrol Part of the furniture Friend

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    RETB old?

    The semaphores around Shrewsbury still work don't they? How old are they and their infrastrucure techniques? 19th century technology updated to the 21st century.

    Think backto the fiasco of the Central Wales line in the 1960's, when vast amounts of money were spent on colour light signals etc, to put a centralised train control system on that line. Equipment was stored for ages at Llandridnod Wells, gradully rusting away, until the project was quietly abandoned. The line was eventually re-equipped from train staff and ticket to simple remotely operated key token instruments in the 1980's. A system still in use today. 19th century technology updated to the 21st century. More recently, the renewed Welsh Highland has decided not to proceed with radio signalling as originally envisaged, but to use refurbished 19th century electric train staffs for the whole line. Proven technology.

    The trouble is, I think, that we live in a throw away society, where some committee decides that each system will have a lifespan of x years, and that is that. Then instead of improving/repairing the existing, more money goes on pilot schemes for another idea. Moving block signalling ( if that is the way to describe ERTMS) is surely better suited to a double track mainline, where traffic flows are higher, not a remote branch line, where trains can only pass at specific places

    Surely, if it isn't broken, why fix it?

    Back on topic though.

    Realistically, what are the chances of a pair of panniers up the coast ( Mach-Barmouth) before new technology takes hold?
     
  17. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    Presumably these are the very reasons why the Cambrian has been selected for the trial - i.e. that it remote, fairly isolated from the rest of the network and not heavily used, so any disruption will have limited knock on to the rest of the system.
     
  18. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    Precisely - im sure if they installed ERTMS on a mainline without trialling it somewhere quieter there would be people saying how its the problem of 'todays society' that they rush into things without testing it first :)

    About the comparison of RETB and mechanical signalling - the former is an electronic system, which of course means its out of date a lot quicker than a predominantly mechanical system ; albeit one which is very labour and maintenance intensive, out of date itself and would likely be done away with tomorrow if the money and resources were available. I should also mention that the WHR will be using radio signalling for some time - until ERTMS arrives the NR crossing will be so inflexible that the expense is unlikely to be worth it.

    Yes, ERTMS has issues, but i suspect its more to do with NR's project management than the route they are testing it on.

    Chris
     
  19. Nexuas

    Nexuas Well-Known Member

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    Accommodation in Wales

    I can recommend

    Quality Cottages No connection just a satisfied customer, correction, my WIFE is a satisfied customer. I used to stay in a 1960's £15 a night dog box (or however it was phrased?) To get good food, I think you have to venture a little way from the sea front...
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    So - recommendations are few and far between

    One of the locations mentioned above at the south end of a toll bridge was actually the £138 a night, lost in the sixties, mince and pie crust emporium - so going with reputation proves nothing.

    Stay in Port Meirion? - when did a paint brush last touch the place?? Anyway - I am not a number, I am a free man.

    Our last four seasons have yielded two acceptable B&Bs, and that was only in the last year, and one evening restaurant in Aber where the CCE only called for one season. The rest of the experience has been poor and very much Little Brummagem in kiss me quick hats as also mentioned above.

    If Wales wants a tourist industry it has to compete both on price and quality - and the "Not wanted here - bxxxxr off to New York" post spoke volumes - especially when you have seen the Palisades in autumn - it gives Aberglaslyn a run for its money! A lot of places are trading on reputations they lost years ago - or are trying to charge the earth - which they just aren't worth.

    Last year we drove from Fairbourne to Harlech in mid afternoon and found not a single place offering accommodation at a sensible price, if at all. We finished up in Barmouth simply to be convenient for boarding the CCE - but not out of choice.

    We are currently booking up in Scotland for our chase after the Great Briton II - at around two thirds of the rates routinely charged by establishments along the Cambrian Coast and which offer substantially better quality.

    We had one bad experience up there two years ago - at the famous Lochalsh Hotel where standards have simply crashed. The others were superb, for food, for real ale, and for furnishings.

    I can only write as I find - and I find the Cambrian Coast a poor competitor in the tourism stakes
     

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