9F Locomotives - Restrictions on Network Rail

Not only are the logical comments about required chassis work a killer but given that if a rehashed 9F derivative goes on the mainline it is for pax work why bother with a further slow machine. What is the business case for getting the network approval for a 9F other than perhaps a few specific sections of line like Grosmont - Whitby without the problem point work but with a regular option for running the loco?

Surely this summer has proven what is needed for the work available are more class 7 passenger engines with funds and resources better put to getting those back out on the network.

Even if as a prospective builder, owner, operator you were going for a new build a second new A1 (a la Tornado) would make more sense, the design and therefore presumably patterns etc exist, it has mainline approval already and with staggered timing for boiler certs/overhauls give more or less full time coverage. 9Fs and the like are fantastic but surely the place for them in today's railway market is lines like the NYMR that need big load pullers at slow speed. However as the NYMR are not exactly rushing to restore the WD Vera Lynne perhaps even there the economics of running such a big engine in extra coal consumption, track wear etc., don't stack up when a Class 5 will do the job.

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Setting aside the logistical problems for a moment there probably wouldn't be a shortage of turns on the network for a 9F. Wheel diameter just gets them into 60mph limit.
The Fellsman schedule, for example, was/is set to allow the 8F to haul it. Other routes in the north don't demand 75mph, as the use of 5s testifies. A 9F would be comfortably within its limits and able to do pretty much anything asked of it, including accelerating the train quickly, contrasting with a 5.
Pity we are unlikely ever to know.

 

I can't help thinking that it would be cheaper and easier to upgrade the GCR or MHR to 50mph passenger running and just keep the 9Fs as they are and where they are...

 

Best post in this thread yet. Only query, would that need a reversion of the light railway status if such still exists?


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Probably, and I can't see the GCR's Pway people being too happy.

 

Discussed ad nauseam on other threads. Very expensive to do, opens up all sorts of issues with the legislation, and then imposes significant extra costs for little return. In this case, all for the sake of being able to run one class faster because you can't do it on Network Rail.

The sad reality is that the railway has moved on, and the 9Fs have been left behind so that we will never see them working where they were designed for. I'd personally prefer one of the Edwardian 4-4-0s to be allowed out mainline and to work at the pace they were capable of; the probability of that is equally low.

 

I guess they have additional movement built in to their design if required.

 

Lateral motion devices were a common fitment on many US locomotives with long wheelbases, whether rigid framed or articulated.
These were manufactured by Alco and Franklin amongst others and involved spring centering of axleboxes, usually with spherical bearing side rods, although not always.

 

Removed by me.

 

Not really as I understand it.

Sawdust.

 

Removed by me.

 

Sawdust is right. I'm afraid you're wrong, although you may have read it. I doubt the real reasons are in print, anywhere.

 

So let's be grateful that the same doesn't apply to steam in general.

 

Mmm, If you'd told me, 50 years ago, that in 2015 I would regularly see Spitfires flying overhead and steam trains running on the main line within a few miles of my house I would have thought it ridiculous. These were things we thought were going almost forever, with maybe a handful of exceptions.

 

What about a Schools/D49/Midland Compound? City of Truro shows what a decent 4-4-0 can do

 

35B said an Edwardian 4-4-0. None of those you list are pre-WWI (in current form for the Compound).
However, I have great news for both of you - a Victorian (just)/Edwardian 4-4-0 is relatively soon to return to the Irish mainline in the form of 131. Another inside cylinder 4-4-0 (later vintage but still Edwardian in essence) is on its way - and in glorious blue (171). And a compound 4-4-0 is on the mainline now (85). All can be sampled regularly for superb value ticket prices (even including your travel across the Irish sea) and warm hospitality.
And I'm sure we (RPSI) would love some more support...

 

Waiting patiently and watching the RPSI website for 131 to be out on a railtour.....

 

I am, every time I see steam come past the end of my street amongst the 91s.

 

Have removed my post as it would appear the things I had read were incorrect.
Regards
Chris