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A question about G.W.R. engines

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 240P15, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. Hurricane

    Hurricane Active Member

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    G
    Brake handle just too far to reach whilst looking out the cab window....
    One gauge glass rather than two
    Lots and lots of brass?
     
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  2. CLN_WVR

    CLN_WVR Member

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    I noticed that - the Vale of Rheidol was running right hand though the loop at Aberffrwd when I visited too
     
  3. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Active Member

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    I wonder was that a legacy from gravity working, did the north sides of the loops have a straighter run?
     
  4. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Active Member

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    McDonnell, amongst his other sins, tried to introduce LHD...
    Wonder why L&SW don't seem to have minded so much?
     
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  5. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Active Member

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    Various stories involve some version of Napoleon and the British.
    As so often, this tells us more about our own obsession with ourselves. In fact, Napoleon wasn't that interested in the British!
    In reality, LHD or RHD is an arbitrary decision. In France, it owes more to Robespierre than Napoleon. In the US, it predates Napoleon, and has more to do with right-handed teamsters controlling teams of horses on wagons.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=qfak8nsMNGIC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
     
  6. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I've heard these stories as well. I think the answer is we will never know. The story about Napolean's order to his troops I think was true, whether it ever lead to driving on the right is another matter
     
  7. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Active Member

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    Wouldn't it be interesting to know what reply an apprentice in the loco drawing office received when he asked, "But, why?"
     
  8. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    I always thought many railway companies initially went for right hand drive because most firemen were right handed, and wasn't being left-handed viewed suspiciously in Victorian times? At least that's what I seem to remember from primary school. With small locomotive boilers the issue of most signals being sited on the left hand side of the track wasn't an issue, as the driver could just look round the boiler. As locos got larger there were two approaches to rectify most of the signals not being easy for drivers to sight. The GWR took the one of arranging signals so they could be seen from a right-handed footplate, and the other 3 big-4 companies eventually standardised on left hand drive. Given that the GW was, unlike the other big 4 companies, effectively an enlargement of an existing company, rather than the merger of multiple other companies, and did not have any constituents that would have been LHD (as opposed to the LNWR and Caledonian on the LMS, the LBSCR and LSWR on the SR and the NB on the LNER), it was much easier (or much less difficult) to perpetuate the standards it had previously ran with, as opposed to merging the best policy elements from the different constituents
     
  9. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Being left handed was still viewed with suspicion when my mother was at school in the 30's/40's. Pupils were 'encouraged' to conform to the norm with a sharp rap over the knuckles with a ruler if caught using their left ..... and they called it education. Well, you can stick that aspect of the 'good old days' where the sun doesn't shine!

    As a 'leftie' myself, I note a disproportionate percentage of geniuses are left handed ..... a trait which seems to have passed me by!
     
  10. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense. Strangely, although the LMS became dominated by ex-Midland big-wigs and that company used right hand drive, the LMS chose to move the driver to the left.
     
  11. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Yes, a little odd. Although as the LNWR and Caley were both LHD, maybe they decided it was best to conform to the pattern set by more than half of the LMS network
     
  12. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    On the odd time I get dragged around any town centre, I keep wondering why, in general, People walk on the right hand side of the pavement?
    You would think that by walking on the Left they could see the bus mirror that was about to hit them.

    Left and Right arguments are everywhere.
     
  13. bob.meanley

    bob.meanley Member

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    Ahhh! 71A? You should be well acquainted with ergonomic slums there then? Presumably you are one of these chaps who likes to drive sitting down and hanging out of the window so everyone can see you, Real drivers didn't do that all the time (particularly at 75 mph on a cold wet night), and what exactly is the importance of leaning out of the window whilst applying the brakes? It appears that a little education is also required on gauge frames. The GWR got away with using only one because it was a rather superior contrivance which was a lot more reliable and less likely to break glasses because they went to the expense of providing a substantial gauge column to mount it on which ensured correct alignment, and meant that there was no movement between gauge cocks unlike inferior arrangemnets where the gauge cocks were fastened to pads on the boiler. I have only ever seen one GWR glass break and the ex GW traction inspector who was with us said that he had never seen one break - it's called reliability. As for brass? Well if you've got it, flaunt it: there again the GW is somewhat more muted than a Wainwright D, beautiful things though they are. Please do give us your explanation as to why decoration is to be deplored.
    Regards
    Bob
     
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  14. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I doubt if that is correct as railway companies paid little attention to to the needs and comfort of the crew, see the current issue of SR and the cab of the S&D 7F.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If I'm on a passenger train I'm not too bothered about leaning out of the cab side and rarely do If I'm shunting, I find it takes on a lot more importance. As for driving sitting down, I have to admit that I prefer this to standing up but I adjust my stance to suit the loco I'm on. For example, on a Black 5 it is sat down running forward and stood up running in reverse. On a 42XX or 56XX, it is sat down in both directions but, running in reverse does involve wedging myself between the reverser and the cab side and dangling my left leg outside the cab sheet if I want to be comfortable! Them thar BR standards are much better for comfort.

    As for gauge glasses, there's more that can go wrong with them than simply a glass breaking. Having two means of measurement gives a lot of reassurance and relying on tri-cocks that use the same stabbings as the gauge frame does not eliminate common mode failure.
     
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  16. Mogul

    Mogul New Member

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    looks like an opportunity for a bit of GWR Trolling :Nailbiting:
    • Lamp brackets run 90deg out. Parallel to the side not the front.
    • Avoided getting a number prefix at nationalisation.
    • 25in of vacuum instead of 21in
    • Excessive number of oiling points
    • Lower quadrant signals
    I liken the GWR to Apple.
    • Different, just to be diffrent
    • Showy,
    • Have a almost religious following,
    • Think they are better than everybody else but are not
    Lights blue touch paper and retirees:D:Troll:
     
  17. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Seems fair. Of course, we have to add that, like Apple, they might be a bit expensive and hyped but fundamentally they are still a bit better than the oppositions' cheap 'n' nasty products.
     
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  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think the current feeling about Apple products is that they were well ahead of their time and innovative for a period, but then the designers rested on their laurels and they are being left behind by their competitors.

    Any connection with GWR locomotives is entirely co-incidental...

    Tom
     
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  19. Cartman

    Cartman Active Member

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    I cant really comment directly from an operating point of view as Ive only ever driven and fired a loco once, a Black 5. Conversations with other crews at the ELR suggested that GWR locos were more difficult to prepare due to a lot of oiling points and they didn't steam well on less than high quality coal.

    I remember going on a railtour once to the Severn Valley and our train there was hauled by a Manor, cant remember which one, and it slipped to a standstill on an uphill section. After being stuck for half an hour, we had to be rescued by an 08. One of our group was an ex Bury 26D fireman who commented that "I did'nt like Gas Works Railway locos before, now I like them even less!
     
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  20. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I read of a quote attributed to Churchward, not sure if it's true of not but when he was asked by one of the directors why it took nearly twice as long to build a loco at Swindon than the LNWR took at crew, the reply was 'at Swindon we use precision engineering, Crewe work to the nearest half inch'
     

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