Alternative High Speed Steam?

Possibly measuring round the rim would be 12ft? As a diameter it would be getting on the loading gauge and would never go under the floor between the bogies.

 

i don't know if i still have the book , but in Midland Line Memories there is a quoted speed for an unrebuilt Compound on the northbound descent from Ais Gill Summit ---probably between 1902-5 -- of 92 mph.

 

See posting No. 92.

 

To me, that sort of casts a shadow across Rous-Marten further than (for me anyway) he already had.

 

I have read in a number of places opinions of Charles Rous-Marten and few are good - some almost viewed him as a menace especially when on the footplate. Don't ask me where though...

 

I certainly don’t think he was entirely transparent about Salisbury.

He timed the 23 April 1904 run without, as far as I am aware, detailed timings being published. This was the first of the accelerated runs by the LSWR (a week before the GWR followed suit). The overall timings are probably correct, and it is almost certain that the train did run exceptionally fast east of Salisbury. What is vague in his original report is precisely how fast the train traversed the curves at the east end of Salisbury, at the time Rous-Marten merely saying “at full speed” and “without appreciable slowing”.

Subsequently, after the 1906 accident he seemed determined to say that speed alone wasn’t the cause, and it is at that point that he mentions, for the April 23 1904 run, 75mph in the half mile approach to Salisbury, and 60mph at the tunnel. Taken with his earlier statements about going at “full speed” and “no slowing discernible” that implies a high (60+ mph) speed over the crossover, something that would probably be just about survivable in a T9, but likely to lead to a massive shaking for everyone on the train and perhaps p/way damage.

That speed seems very unlikely, and it is probable that he was misled - knowingly or not - by a gross error in mileposts between Salisbury station and Salisbury Tunnel where there is nearly a whole quarter mile missing. If so, his timings (which aren’t published but could be reconstructed on his known statements) might make sense if the train slowed to about 30mph over the curves, then accelerated again. 60mph is a 15 second quarter mile before the tunnel, which could be doable if the quarter mile is actually rather short and the train is accelerating again up from 30mph or thereabouts. Without the actual timings of every milepost right through the station, we won’t know, but it seems that Rous-Marten allowed a degree of vagueness to support his contention that 60mph through Salisbury was safe, and therefore the 1906 accident had some other cause.

It is notable that on the 23 April run, BC French was on the footplate and there was also I believe an experienced guards inspector on the train, so it seems very unlikely to me that that train went faster than normal for non-stopping trains through Salisbury: indeed, it was the Basingstoke area that raised concerns in that case, not Salisbury.

What is unclear both in that specific case, and more generally, is how much was chicken and how much was egg when Rous-Marten (or other timers) rode on trains. 23 April 1904 was the first day that the LSWR accelerated their service, and Rous-Marten was aboard, but it is not clear whether the crew agreed to “have a crack at a fast time” once they knew a timer was on board; or whether instead they had pre-decided to go fast and someone tipped off Rous-Marten that it might be worth his while catching the train.

Tom

 

Pretty sure I read that Rous-Marten - when let loose on the footplate - was notorious for pushing drivers and firemen to 'go faster'. I could be wrong, of course - I just wish I could remember where I saw that.

 

Rous-Marten wrote that one of the Johnson Singles "first achieved the honour of authentically reaching 90 mph". According to Nock ("Great Locos of the LMS") quoting Rous-Marten about the first Johnson Compounds, "engines 2631 & 2632 used to knock up maximum speeds of over 90 mph descending from Aisgill and Blea Moor in their early years". No logs or other details are given. Nock does provide a couple of his own timing logs for Compounds on that route in the 1920s, with a maximum of 78 mph.

The Midland got a number of mentions for high speeds in the late Johnson era, but that appeared to cease after the early 1900s. Apart from the retirement of Johnson, the Midland was undergoing wider management changes, which may have seen an end to any speed trials and humouring of Rous-Marten. The Midland was moving into the era of its "small engine policy".

 

"Authentically reaching" without evidence. Exasperating!

Quite a substantial speed difference that.

There's a definite line to be draw between:

Authenticated speed record - we can see the evidence and records and make an informed judgement on whether it was achieved
Unauthenticated speed record - little evidence provided and we can't make a full judgement on whether it was achieved

I'm throwing all of the timekeeper's unofficial records into the latter bracket, I'm afraid.

Rous-Marten appears to be a law unto himself, quite frankly. Most historians would, probably not unfairly, label him an unreliable source of information.

 

I do so wish I could remember what the publication was I read that basically rubbished Rous-Marten and his footplate exploits so I could advise you of it. If nothing else, perhaps CoT's claim to 102.3mph should go in the bin - are there verifiable records for this? ISTR it was covered in a Railway Magazine article which concluded "no, it didn't".