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Back Of The Shed

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by James F, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    Very unlikely. With 3 (soon, sadly, to become only 2) A4s still being overhauled and operated on the main line, what would there be to gain? Bear in mind the point that you would have to replace a lot of metal to restore 4468 to working order again; indeed her running in the 80s was very tightly controlled and very much "Do just enough to make her safe, but no more". In addition, the modifications to take modern equipment like TPWS would be required. I just cannot see Mallard steaming ever again, tbh - not even for 2038.

    Scotsman was actually operational (just...) when she was purchased by the NRM. Different scenario altogether.
     
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  2. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    Scotsman is being "milked" simply because the NRM was made aware by the public that it was expected to be seen around the network hence the decision to undertake the expensive overhaul which must now be paid for - plus earn income to pay for its next overhaul. Since this was overhauled to meet public expectations it is surely fair for the NRM to expect that same public to help defray the expenses and build up a reserve to pay for future overhauls. In many ways that is assisted by restricting the operating days, train loads and lines visited in order to create a rarity value that justifies the premium on both fares and marketed items.

    Whilst I disagree with the phraseology - especially "milk what it can from Scotsman" - it is surely essential that those wishing to see Scotsman working and hopefully travel behind it should be willing to meet the cost of providing the event(s). The same criticism could be levelled at A4s @ 75 when the bringing together of 6 A4s cost a great deal but many of us were prepared to pay the (high) prices in order to sample an event that is unlikely to be repeated at any time; was the NRM "milking us" or simply expecting us to pay a proper contribution towards an expensive event that required a great deal of time and finance to arrange ?
     
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  3. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I tend to agree with you about continuity of existence rather than continuity of components. The point I was making was to refute the widely held, but erroneous, view that “frames = identity”. I could cite examples where pairs of locos entered the works, one was “scrapped” and one “refurbished”, but where the refurbished loco that emerged for further service clearly had the identity of the scrapped sister, if you base identity as synonymous with frames.

    In the end, the identity of a loco is whatever is written in the works record, and painted (or bolted) on the side.

    Tom
     
  4. clinker

    clinker New Member

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    Albert/Rood Ashton Hall being a case in point, only discovered during restoration, because OFICIALLY it never happened, in My view, the effective identity is that of the frames, so IF, again heaven forbid No.27 was reduced to parts, and the major components used to re-build a P class on an existing set of frames then the identity SHOULD be that of the loco that supplied the frames, whether the frames were 'original' to the loco or not, if fully traceable then the original loco/frame number should be used. Thankfully this is all hypothetical.
     
  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I was thinking along the lines of where such identity swaps officially happened - such as in the 1960s when pairs of long and short frame M7s entered the works for overhaul / scrapping, and on at least two occasions the loco that emerged clearly had the long frames but carried the identity of the short framed loco, with the official mileage adjusted. (Meanwhile, a set of components equal to one loco, including the short set of frames, were scrapped but the identity recorded of the scrapped loco was the long framed example).

    Tom
     
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  6. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    So 30841 will continue to "exist" for as long as its frames remain extant?
    If replacement frames are constructed to replace the set said to be beyond economic repair, what loco identity should be applied when components are assembled to form a complete machine?
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    If they construct replacement frames and then build the loco back up, the identity would continue to be 841. The same has happened to other locos in preservation.

    Tom
     
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  8. This entire debate is entirely academic, anyway, because so many loco owners give an engine a spurious identity whch has absolutely nothing to do with its real one.
     
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  9. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    Janitor's Broom. "He's only ever had one broom for all 40 years he's been here, aside from the four new handles and six mop heads."
     
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  10. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Example?
     
  11. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    When I took my children for a run on the main line behind Flying Scotsman two years ago I doubt if much - if anything of the machine my father saw at Wembley in 1924 remained BUT I dont doubt that it was the same machine with all the history and glamour attached.
     
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    34046/52 I guess would be one example that seems to have gone beyond a short term ID change for a gala or photo charter.

    Tom
     
  13. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Active Member

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    Hogwarts castle and a lot of ‘Thomases’ and 2890, some engines that have been painted red and sometimes called James
     
  14. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    Union of Osprey? Ok it was for political reasons (and perfectly good ones) but still.
     
  15. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    These are hardly permanent and easily changed back. Seems petty to start whinging about this when said characters help keep said railways running.

    Thank you for a sensible answer Tom.
     
  16. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Active Member

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    I made no comment on whether it is a good or bad thing, simply to give examples of locos changing their identity. I believe that 80104 ran as 80146 last year.

    Didn’t 60019 run as Silver Link and also Dominion of New Zealand?

    Is 5521 still running as LT150?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  17. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    Not quite in the same league surely, given that Osprey was the locomotive's original name and it reverted to that for a particular period of time to avoid unnecessary political problems during a time when anything supporting South Africa was at risk of damage / destruction.
     
  18. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    60019 was painted as Silver Link but AFAIK only during a period out of traffic.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. D6332found

    D6332found Member

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    Said political reasons are now persecution of white farmers. Our media ignores this, but apparently its worse than Zimbabwe was. Sadly Mandela's dream failed- it should be renamed OSPREY for good!
     
  20. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Was it not done when it hauled a special train for the Edinburgh Commonwealth Games some years back, South Africa being banned from the games at that time?
     

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