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Baldwin "Lyn" new build.

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Meiriongwril, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. ellenbee pioneer

    ellenbee pioneer New Member

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    Did he ? Or did Alan Keef's not find the right shade at B&Q? Because Lyn is patently different from the colours in 'Measured and Drawn' or Phoenix Precision's 1930 spec ( for full-size locos).
    And the bright yellow lettering on the buffer beam - was that as agreed as well?
    This is a rerun of the painting of Woody Bay station itself in technicolor green and yellow when there was no evidence the station ever carried anything other than dark and light stone!
    It's not rocket science.
     
  2. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

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    If you're that concerned with the colour scheme I suggest you call up Keef's and tell them that you think they just went to B&Q and got the wrong paint. I'm sure Keef's will be most pleased to hear from you. I assume that you are a member of the 762 Club, which is why you feel justified in posting sarcastic comments about the locomotive, and doubtless also of the L&B Trust which is why you're still going on about the colours of the station at Woody Bay. I'm also sure you know that L&B supporters on Nat Pres look forward to your constructive comments. :rolleyes:
     
  3. ellenbee pioneer

    ellenbee pioneer New Member

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    So, someone points out inaccuracies and that's the response?! I notice you don't deny that Lyn is not in the same livery as page 103 in 'Measured and Drawn'.
    How can anyone offer 'constructive comments'about something that is patently wrong? Or are the Emperor's New Clothes ok by you?
     
  4. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

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    I'd have thought the initial thorough response from Martin, with reference to Steve Phillips' involvement, would seem to be satisfactory in relation grievance, hence the more tongue in cheek response to 'take it up with Alan Keef'. I'm not sure what more you expect from a public forum that isn't remotely the official mouthpiece of the L&B.

    As a side note, are you the same poster as The Engineer from some time ago?
     
  5. ellenbee pioneer

    ellenbee pioneer New Member

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    No, I am not Andy - I've got better punctuation!
    As for details like the final livery, I am very surprised that a locomotive costing circa £800k didn't have the correct colours - it's not as if there isn't accurate information as to the precise livery Lyn would have received in December 1928. Incidentally, I am also surprised that the loco wasn't run-in on, say, the Brecon Mountain or Welsh Highland where problems could have been identified and rectified away from the public eye. I am also very surprised at the need to tinker with the original design, especially the superheating and much higher boiler pressures for a line that is unlikely to exceed five miles in length over the next twenty years.
    I have already stated previously on this forum that I applaud those involved with this project in completing it in only eight years and during a period of recession/austerity, when the FR projected seven years for Lyd and in the event took almost twice that.
    It would be interesting to discover the individual axle loadings for the current loco, as the original carried almost half the total weight on the rear driving axle. I am also sceptical that the expensive technical enhancements will significantly improve performance over the original, which presumably could match the Manning Wardles for five 9 ton coaches (the current coaches have lighter underframes and bogies) on the northern section through Woody Bay.

    Time will show which of us is nearer the mark. I honestly hope I'm wrong.
     
  6. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    The " Emperor's New Clothes" look fine to me, and I am the first one to draw a critical eye to a shade which looks wrong, EG Lord Nelson.
    As an artist who paints railway subjects, my Interpretations may be open to criticism as much as anybody else's, but perhaps because of that, I may pay closer attention to colour shades, and the effect that natural light has upon them than some others. to that same shade in real life.
     
  7. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Over my lifetime I have come across many people who have differing interpretations of colours. This arises from various times, dealing with the public, in the house furnishing trade and the decorating of houses and other structures.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zgh34j6
     
  8. MartinBall

    MartinBall Member

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    Frankly - does it matter?????
     
  9. ellenbee pioneer

    ellenbee pioneer New Member

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    Frankly, yes!! Have a 'who cares if it's accurate or not' approach and you might as well bulldoze an original station and replace it with something more 'convenient', or replace your locos with a continental equivalent.
    It doesn't cost much more to do something properly.

    As to those that believe different people have different colour perceptions (a valid point), I have in front of me the colour swatch for 'Dulwich' as she was painted at Eastleigh eighteen months after Lyn. I also have the colour swatch for Sir Francis Drake painted two years before. Both are indistinguishable from each other and both are quite different from every photo I have of Lyn. I have no doubt that placed against the side tanks they would clearly still be significantly darker. Maunsell Dark Olive green was notoriously dark, it prompted a shareholder to complain about it at the 1935 AGM.

    It is a sad fact that Woody Bay lost more of its originality in the first twenty years of 'preservation' than in the preceding sixty years of private ownership. I would have thought that authenticity might at last be considered important. Clearly not.
     
  10. MartinBall

    MartinBall Member

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    Attached a comparison of Lyd and Lyn - to my eyes the green is pretty much the same, although the yellow appears to differ in how 'goldy' it appears.
    We'll see when the two locos are next to each other in a few months' time.
    upload_2018-8-1_17-32-53.png
     
  11. MartinBall

    MartinBall Member

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    Ah, so your opinions are based on not actually having seen the loco...?
     
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  12. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

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    removed
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  13. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    Well, looking at photos of other locos (Lyd and Stowe) and at Lyn all I can say is that to my, not too good, eyes the green looks fine. I admit the lettering looks a little deep yellow, but so what?

    At least the L&B locos never had the horrible Malachite Green inflicted on them.
     
  14. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Well ...... not so far, at any rate! :Bag:
     
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  15. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Well somebody's clearly got their feathers all ruffled up... and all this a coat of paint! Not that that's surprising on this forum mind you... :rolleyes:

    Quite frankly I think your being a touch over-pedantic about this affair now, to the point of being just plain ridiculous. Having Lyn in not quite an accurate livery, and BULLDOZING an original station, are two VERY different things I think you'll find. Getting the livery exactly as it was originally is a minefield of issues. For one few are alive that can remember it, for another factors like the quality/grade of paint used and indeed how they are applied, all of these points and more are open to a lot of interpretation.

    And simply put, at the end of the day, are the general public really gonna mind? I think not, so long as the locomotive and carriage and are clean and presentable enough, that's all that matters.

    Now how about you stop raining on the parade for those that put their hard earned cash and years of work into this wonderful machine, and move along! Either that or have something actually positive to say about their work...

    If this really such a problem for you, then why not build your own example and show us all how it should be built and indeed painted. Please by our guest~.
     
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  16. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Err, it's not supposed to be!?
     
  18. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Dear 'ellenbee pioneer',

    I would say that "LYN" is painted in pretty much what most people regard as SR Maunsell Green. Bearing in mind that the same paint suppliers you quoted, to Brighton Circle members regarded a batch of Stroudley Improved Engine Green supplied to be not accurate, and arranged for an alternative supply from another manufacturer, I would not add any weight to your "swatches", and in any event a small "swatch" is very difficult to interpret IMHO.

    Presumably you have no problem with the shade of black bordering, or white lining?

    The same company you quote supplied me with a special tin of very bright yellow for the lettering and numbering for the SR Maunsell livery. From memory it was the paint used on rescue helicopters. It can be over painted on SR Maunsell Green to require first no undercoat to lettering or numerals which is a considerable advantage.

    I have heard of the primrose yellow for the SR Maunsell livery for numerals and lettering, but I would say that on the IOWSR locos so painted it is a much brighter yellow than pale primrose. I would also say the same for the Bluebell locos in this livery.

    Are you aware that Eastleigh first used up stocks of a lighter shade of olive green in early SR days but with the black borders and white lining and yellow lettering and numerals?

    "LYN" is a lovely loco, and a considerable achievement! Long travel piston valves, roller bearing eccentrics, and an up to date smokebox draughting, and lots more besides! Internally it varies markedly from the original! It is a super loco!

    Next thing you might say is you don't like "LYD" because it has superheaters and an altered cab profile and the valve gear modified?!

    Or is "LYD" ok because it is North Wales, and you just object to significant progress on the L & BR currently?

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
  19. Widge

    Widge New Member

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    It's a shame the livery pedants don't put more energy into preserving or building locomotives themselves instead of simply criticising the efforts of others.
    Lyn is a great achievement and it pulls a train in a most effective manner. Personally I couldn't give a tinker's cuss what colour it is.
     
  20. Kempenfelt 82e

    Kempenfelt 82e New Member

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    Without wishing to stir up too much further paint froth, I was speaking to Steve at the launch of Lyn last September and I can confirm that he had advised of gold lettering in his spec. Only a minor error and there may well be reasons for it, perhaps most likely down to tight deadlines to meet the gala, but certainly something which can be rectified at a later date if the desire is there.

    Colour perception itself really is a minefield, on top of those factors already mentioned throw in sunlight, weather conditions, time of year, surroundings and reflects etc etc.......

    In all honesty, there's a lot more discrepancies to the original Lyn than the paint spec, many of which were detailed and discussed with the publication of the CAD drawings throughout the design and build phase. One which may have gone unnoticed by many for instance are the lubricator pots sited at the front of the tanks. These are infact GWR spec, and the tradesman who provided them (who has a particular bias towards the GWR), is quite happy that there's at least a little bit of GWR on the engine. Again many of these can be rectified at a later date if the will, money and desire is there!

    My own personal opinion is that Lyn is a remarkable achievement and a much better alternative than reminiscing whilst looking at old photographs and books. And to summarize, i'm delighted with the result!


    Paul
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018

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