If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Beddgellert on the FR

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by jamesd, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. jamesd

    jamesd Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    194
    Location:
    Llanharan, S Wales
    I was just Reading an article in garden rail magazine about a scratchbuilt model of the hunslet Beddgelert. It mentions that when running on the Ffestiniog railway it was turned to run bunker first due to the long overhang and the small slate wagons. I have not seen any reference to beddgelert running on the FR, does anyone know when this happened and was it a regular occurence? Better still, does anyone know of any photos of it running on the FR?

    James
     
  2. Roger Dimmick

    Roger Dimmick Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Narrow Gauge Heaven - Porthmadog, Gwynedd
    Unfortunately, the writer of the article has got his facts wrong.

    'Beddgelert' never ran on the Ffestiniog - being built in 1878 for the NWNGR and scrapped by the same company some twenty years or so before the WHR (with its link to the Ffestiniog) was constructed...

    'Beddgelert' operated on the original NWNGR main-line to Bryngwyn (as the line up the Gwyrfai valley was at first considered a branch line) - and it was on this line that it was turned, possibly to improve adhesion as well as the reason given in the article...

    More information HERE
     
  3. jamesd

    jamesd Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    194
    Location:
    Llanharan, S Wales
    That's what I thought, thanks Roger.

    James
     
  4. RGCorris

    RGCorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Aberllefenni, Wales
    NWNG "Beddgelert"

    Would a replica Beddgelert be a useful loco (in the same way as the replica Lyd) on the RhE ? I assume it would not fit the FR loading gauge.

    Richard
     
  5. 48DL

    48DL Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    North Warwickshire
    If RhE don't want one, I am sure that WHHR would not say 'no' to one............
     
  6. Roger Dimmick

    Roger Dimmick Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Narrow Gauge Heaven - Porthmadog, Gwynedd
    I very much doubt it... 'Beddgelert' was primarily designed as a freight loco and was not perfect for the work it had to do originally. Hence the work completed by Hunslets to modify the loco by altering the angle the boiler sat in the frames. The rigid 0-6-4 design was obviously not ideal either... I've just seen a drawing of an 1893 design by Hunslet for a 2-6-2ST replacement for 'Beddgelert' - which certainly lends support to the this.

    (I'll probably get shot by the boss at this point!) It has yet to be shown that 'Lyd' will be a useful loco... If the Manning Wardles were restricted to four/five carriages on the L&B, then 'Lyd' will not be anywhere near powerful enough for standard RhE trains. Double-heading with 'K1' would be required on these...

    Correct...

    I wouldn't be too sure about that either - with 'Gelert', 'Russell' and '790' on site already. The financial commitment to running and maintaining yet another steam loco is a major undertaking for any organisation...

    Having said all the above, I'd love to see a replica 'Beddgelert' in operation - it's certainly at the top of my 'Lottery' wish-list, as I think it was the best looking loco ever operated by the NWNGR/WHR..!
     
  7. lynton&barnstaple

    lynton&barnstaple Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    4
    Beddgelert, as stated previously, never ran on the FR which was still not connected with the truncated NWNGR at the time of its scrapping. It would never have cleared the FR loading gauge either.
     
  8. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    Beddgelert was probably the best engine the NWNGR ever had. It's comprable to Linda on the FR but much more robust and with a large boiler,firebox and slightly bigger wheels. Being much more powerful than the gutless single farlies it was very popular and worn out within 25 years. The arrival of Russell ment there was no need to rebuild it so it was scrapped. The rebuilding at hunslets with an inclined boiler has more to do with the poor design of the Bryngwyn Branch than the poor design of the loco. Hunslets seemed to be very proud of Beddgelert and it remained in thier publicity material for years. A replica would be more suitbale for the WHR than Lyd, Moel Tryfan or even Gowrie.

    Tim
     
  9. lynton&barnstaple

    lynton&barnstaple Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    4
    The Manning Wardles were unable to handle five coaches on the L&B. Lyd will be useful short term for no other reason than it will represent a much loved and lost locomotive type and will no doubt attract much attention. I suspect that those involved in the project see the loco eventually living elsewhere.

    Personally, I feel that the RhE went in the wrong direction with NG16s. I strongly believe that they would have been better off with a fleet of NG15s, but there you are
     
  10. SillyBilly

    SillyBilly Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Penrhyndeudraeth
    But will there be any railways willing to stump up the cost of hireing it?

    You're not the only one, but the cheapness and ability to swap loads of parts on the 16s clearly mattered more.
     
  11. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    500
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I personally prefer the NG15s too, but having seen an NGG16 they are quite breath taking!

    On the note about Lyd (as I personally run a one-man Lyd fan club), I think within a very short period of being in operation she will be re-homed somewhere, somewhere obvious, but then this is just my very large pipe dream! That and a full heritage train behind her...

    ...not going to happen for a while huh :(
     
  12. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    555
    Location:
    Isle of Wight
    I'd be very surprised if that ever happened on a permanent basis, the L&B have their own replica loco's under construction and money was given to her as a new F&WHR engine. While perhaps Lyd is not best suited to the demands of the WHR at the moment, who knows what the future will bring in terms of shuttle's etc and im sure she'll find work on the FR along the same lines as Prince and Tal (i think both of which are out of ticket next year?).

    Chris
     
  13. lynton&barnstaple

    lynton&barnstaple Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    4
    " (as I personally run a one-man Lyd fan club). I think within a very short period of being in operation she will be re-homed somewhere, somewhere obvious, but then this is just my very large pipe dream!"

    Ermmm no, I am a member of the fan club too! Who knows what the future will bring.......................
     
  14. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    500
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well I don't have you on my membership database :p

    Maybe she will stay at the WHR/FR for a long while, maybe she wont, but we all know she has a home in Devon and she'd be yearning to go there, frequently!

    Imagine if a repilca of Russell was running on the South Tynedale for example...we all know where she should be.

    Personally I am just happy to see a Manning Wardle!
     
  15. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    47
    Occupation:
    F&WHR Spin Doctor
    Location:
    Maentwrog
    It's not a Manning Wardle, it's a Boston Lodge.
     
  16. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,680
    Likes Received:
    500
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I actually heard that hair splitting
     
  17. RGCorris

    RGCorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Aberllefenni, Wales
    Designed by Manning Wardle, built by Boston Lodge. To use a motor car analogy, Aston Martins built by Zagato are still Aston Martins. Corris No.7 is often referred to as a Kerr Stuart rather than a Winson Drayton for the same reason.

    Richard
     
  18. SillyBilly

    SillyBilly Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Penrhyndeudraeth
    The Tal has allready had it's internal inspection and been re-tubed, in the new year the tanks and cladding will be of the external inspection, and hopefully it should see a quick turn around. Prince on the other hand will be out for a little while.
    I think it'll be dissapointed with the L&B at the moment, because it will have allready stretched its legs at 20mph on a proper raiwlay, of course in a few years time...
     
  19. Charobin

    Charobin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    46
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Launceston
    If you look in the right place you will find that Paul Lewin has said that, if Lyd is not required for services on the FR/WHR, she may become available for hire by the L&B as she would need to earn her keep.

    The current L&B is too short and the trains too small for Lyd to be of economic use there on a regular basis. The L&B management also seemingly do not wish to hire any additional motive power (ref Gertrude). If the L&B expands to a reasonable length and replaces the theme park carriages, Lyd would come into play as suitable motive power (if she was available for hire). However it is my opinion that, at present the L&B will not be expanding beyond Woody Bay - Killington Lane in the foreseeable future, although I would like to be proved wrong on that point.

    Lyd can, of course, visit as a star attraction at a L&B gala - which, as I am sure most are aware, is provisionally on the cards for next year.


    Charlie
     
  20. 8-10 Brass Cleaner

    8-10 Brass Cleaner Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Bridges
    Oh dear, there will be a more than a few Stokies turning in their grave if they hear that.
     

Share This Page