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Best looking loco (ex6201 Lizzie overhaul thread)

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by John Petley, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    Now that would be an interesting thread - which engine/class do people regard as the most graceful?
     
  2. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    The B12/3 - as rebuilt by Thompson and signed off by Gresley. It remains in preservation the most elegant of all 4-6-0s, and in apple green livery arguably a contender for the most graceful too.
     
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  3. MikeParkin65

    MikeParkin65 Member

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    Gresley A1 in original form with GNR tender and original taller cab.
     
  4. 242A1

    242A1 Active Member

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    Just as Holden was responsible for the original S69. Only he wasn't. The ex-GE men knew what they were doing. As for ET he was given "something to do" out of the way.
     
  5. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    An amusing interpretation of history. Particularly given the details regarding the first B12/3's rebuilding which are available to study. But then I suspect you'll have read up on them, no?

    Don't you have better things to do than attempt to bait me?
     
  6. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    Since I raised the subject of which extant loco is the most graceful, my vote would go to another red loco albeit with only one set of driving wheels - the Midland Johnson "Spinner" 118 (or it it 673?). Runner up would be SECR Wainwright "D" Class No. 737 and in third place the LSWR Adams "T3" no. 563
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
  7. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Active Member

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    Fully agree, Gresley had his styling right first time time with 1470!
     
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  8. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I dont think you can beat a Jubilee or a rebuilt Scot myself. Mods, before someone complains can we have this as a seperate thread? We have gone off topic a smidge
     
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  9. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Difficult to argue with that.
     
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  10. 242A1

    242A1 Active Member

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    Tiddeman, Hill and Russell were responsible for the original design, S. D. Holden let them get on with it. And they produced a very impressive machine - it looked good too. Very good.

    The B12/3. How much of the work carried out on it was directly carried out by ET? Given that when he put together the B1 he chose the Dia. 100 boiler which owed nothing directly to Gresley/Doncaster - a decision which is viewed as deliberate and the 99A is based on the same NBLC design - he could well be credited with boiler. As for anything else, given the historic proof of talent on the old GE ...........

    ET undoubtably had issues with the GN/Gresley/Doncaster axis of things. It should come as no surprise that when the chance came for the great icon of this axis to be savaged out of all recognition the opportunity was grasped with both hands and the deafness to all pleas was total. How vital it was that the livery should be eliminated too. But though he might have felt more at ease out on the old GE what did he actually achieve there? How much was down to the unsung efforts of others?

    Returning to the B1. The cylinder performance makes for an interesting comparison with that of the K2. Then you can look further at ET's quality of work when involved with 10,000............

    Most important. Back to the thread title. I do so admire the people who work on and support this machine. They have had their ups and downs but this big red engine always comes back to play. Long may it continue.

    Can we perhaps have a new thread for Most Elegant Locomotives?

    As for bait - sorry and all that. But what makes you believe that you can be a wilful revisionist with impunity?
     
  11. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    My fault, apologies and yes, let's make it a separate thread.
     
  12. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I've responded to the above post on the Thompson thread. My apologies LMS fans for taking it off topic.

    I wonder how many people see the similarities in overall layout and ideas between a Stanier Princess and a Thompson Pacific…!
     
  13. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    Probably not many, but now you mention it...
     
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  14. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Oh dear. Trying to put Thompson in the same class as Stanier are we?
     
  15. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I think you misunderstand my intention. Thompson has been recorded in several publications as being an admirer of Stanier, and if you care to look at the overall layout, there are echoes of Stanier in several of Thompson's work. The B1 is directly comparable with the Black Five and the most useful addition to the LNER fleet, the L1 has shades of Stanier's 2-6-4Ts in its overall look, and the Pacifics share the cylinder/connecting rod layout which gives both the Princesses and the Thompson Pacifics that extra length.

    At no point did I make any comparison with how good the engineering was/wasn't: that was what you presumed.

    And if you look at the stovepipe double chimney applied to 6201 originally, and compare her look then to the A2/2s, there is more than an echo and I have always wondered if there was more going on than meets the eye with Thompson's thinking. Without written evidence it is all circumstantial of course, but given what I've found out about Thompson's relationship with Stanier, one has to wonder.
     
  16. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Most graceful loco in my opinion; LSWR T9, (in any of its incarnations!)
     
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  17. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    It's an interesting demonstration of human nature how we use arguments in contradictory ways. The any stick will do to beat a dog principle.
    Collet is widely criticised because he largely stuck to his predecessor's fundamental designs, and Thompson equally criticised because he didn't.

    Yet on the other hand Collett scrapped and rebuilt Churchward's work with just as much enthusiasm as Thompson, but attracts a fraction of the criticism, one might suspect simply because the rebuilds looked superficially similar.
     
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  18. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Possibly Colletts minimal changes could be explained by the old adage 'if it ain't broke' etc?
     
  19. CH 19

    CH 19 Active Member Friend

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    Its got to be the Adams Radial in original form, she just oozes elegance.
     

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  20. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    For me its the T9! She is a glourious looking machine
     

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