Bluebell 2009 "Modernisation"

Columbine,

I also like the fact that the Bluebell is stil essentially 100% steam, but according to Normandy's posting.....

....the hire of the 73 is a case of short-term expediency, and cheaper than hiring a steam loco to do this job. In view of the massive cost of digging out Imberhorne Tip, and especially bearing in mind that the share issue hasn't thus far come anywhere near the £1.8 million aimed for, if bringing in a 73 for a few weeks will help ensure that STEAM trains one day return nto East Grinstead that bit quicker, I don't see a big problem.

 

um where is it written that the Bluebell is going to use diesels on revenue earning passenger trains?

I have to say, your post is rather an over reaction to the use of the 73 on the tip.

 

Well this is Nat Pres the home of over reaction...... ](*,)

ian h

 

If what has been written on here about how the Blubell is currently suffering in the motive power stakes is to be believed, then surely having a diesel to work these trains and take the weight off the steam is a good thing? that way you can have all the steam you want to pull passengers with.

What planet are you on? i doubt the Mid Norfolk, Barrow hill or the East Lancs would agree with you!!! how can you justify the impoverished remark? (Yes fair enough all those listed have used steam or primarily steam but all have seen and utilised the benefits of being able to call upon a large diesel fleet and x hundred volunteers that come with the diesels at 0 notice, and all benefit from hugely successful and luctrative diesel galas that bring in 1000's of people)

I have seen time and time again that the general public cant tell the difference between steam and diesel in some cases anyway, all the general public want is a good day out at reasonable cost with good value for money. We at Crewe would love a small industrial to trundle up and down our demonstration line with our brakevan, but its simply not affoardable to do it every single weekend for a start, or affoardable to hire one in. Our class 03 diesel loco does the job admirably and i have never had a single complaint from any of the 1000's of people who have traveled behind it.

Primarily im a steam man but i also have a soft spot for diesels. Some railways in recent times have been saved embarrasment by being able to call on a diesel as backup!

Like it or not sir you would be better off working with your fellow preservationists in the diesel movement as one day you may just be calling on them to save your bacon.

I for one welcome this very forward thinking by the Bluebell and wish them every success with the ED as it should be able to take the strain off the steam fleet and allow you breathing space to get things sorted.

 

If this diesel is JUST to be used on spoil trains then begrudingly I'd have to accept it as the Bluebell is just so short of steam motive power. I just hope the management aren't foolish enough to start employing it on passenger trains. I can give two examples why it would be bad PR to put a diesel on the service trains. 1. The K&ESR gala a few years back - there was a DEMU sat in Northiam Station yet the public prefered to stand for another 20mins in the pouring ran and wait for a steam service than board the DEMU and 2. NYMR, I visited Pickering this year and whilst I queued at the ticket office, the family in front of me asked the member of staff "are there any diesels running today?", "No Sir it's an all steam service" and the reply "oh good that's a relief we've picked the correct day to visit" Now is this the type of attitudes the Bluebell want to start getting from the public if they start using the diesel on their services trains? I would hope not, keep the 73 on the spoil trains only and keep everything else steam.

 

I think a lot of the perception that the general public will not travel behind non-steam motive power is a bit of an exaggeration.

Whenever I have had to deal with the public when diesel motive power has replaced steam at short notice, a brief explanation that it is not the sort of loco that you would see at your local station, but something that is almost as old as some of our steam locos has soothed the situation in nearly all cases. There will always be a few people who are not happy with this, but they are not in the majority. In other cases, as long as it is made clear in the railway's publicity if the use of non-steam motive power is planned, then what more can be done?

A lot of it is about how you deal with the situation, rather than how it has come about.

Anyhow, that's all a bit off topic from the news that the Bluebell will have an ED to operate the spoil trains really, isn't it?

 

LOL not much use for shifting anything heavier than a pram i reckon.

Columbine - your rant seems to miss the point, perhaps you'll like to tell use where the 73 features on passenger services ?, as a photter/passenger you will never see the diesel in operation so moaning about it is rather pointless.

On a slightly different point it seems some heavy invesment in the loco department woulden't go amiss once EG is reached.

 

Lets hope so, or we will be seeing diesels make a permanent fixture.

It is a shame all this money that has been spent hiring steam, and Diesel locomotives, in the past and presently was not spent on restoring Normandy, the North London Tank etc. to do this job. We certainly had plenty of warning that we would eventually need to move some spoil.

 

Regarding the use of diesels for such tasks as spoil trains. When diesels displaced steam they were relegated to some fairly menial duties. Is this not steams way of getting its revenge? Why use these wonderful steam locos on such jobs when they can be in there rightful place at the front of a passenger train where, I beleive the public wants to see them.

If someone wishes to pay for steam on the spoil trains for a photo charter then it can only serve to bring the bluebell valueable income. Just think it is a shame to wear out these engines on such trivial tasks. I dont know how these trains are pathed and if they run during the day. Could a steam loco take over the train of loaded spoil at Kingscote when it returns the empty wagons thus keeping the diesel on the extention out of the public view?

Just my thoughts

Adam

 

Of course, in the longer term another aspect of the Bluebell and diesels concerns through running when the East Grinstead extension is finished. I read an article in the Steam Beano a few months ago where Roy Watts said that operators were keen to run through to the Bluebell when it was finally linked up. With there being no facility to turn a steam loco, this means top and tailing with a diesel.

I would guess that the sight of, say Clan line and the VSOE pullmans working through to Sheffield Park with a 66 or 67 on the back for the return trip would be be considered a worthwhile compromise by even the most anti-diesel enthusiast. I would also suspect that there would be quite a gathering on Freshfield Bank to record the diesel lugging 10 heavy pullmans and 35028 up the 1 in 75 gradient - includng some photographers that would probably never go near the line otherwise.

 

Not being familiar with the bluebells operating restrictions, could they not attach one of their own engines for the return journey to EG at least?

 

As far as I am aware you wont see the 73 unless you come down mid week during the 8 weeks it is working the spoil trains, very early 2009 i belive.

 

Now I'm sorry that people thought I was ranting, personally I thought it was a perfectly mild set of comments!

Actually while I was composing my piece in answer to the first few posts a number of NP members clarified the position because at first it definitely seemed that the ED was being brought in to run service trains to ameliorate the current loco shortage not to run spoil trains. ED to run spoil trains OK, ED to run service trains, red mist ... A case of cross posting.

It's interesting that the replies to my initial post concentrate on my heartfelt attitudes to diesels in their mainline form and not to demus. I really do think that one of the 'Hampshire' sets might well have a place on the Bluebell for the reasons I outlined earlier today.

It's also interesting that when a controversial posting such as mine appears respondents so soon descend into personal abuse. I really am on this planet, and I don't have funny pointy ears unlike John Snow of C4 News. I just have a very definite point of view about modernisation plan mainline diesels. Most of them were crap, many of the rest were indifferent and just a very few (03, 04, 08, 20 & 37) were successful. None were pretty in the sense that say No65 is pretty, they sounded awful and they had BO. And I amongst others had to pay for them through my taxes. That's enough to **** anybody off.

I'd better stop now otherwise I'll be accused of ranting again, but as an aside, I do admire the HST and the EMD Cl66. Must be something about them, such as a design actually meeting requirements in terms of performance and reliability. Funny people we engineers.

Regards

 

And yet you admire the 66's the locos that supposedly are the saviour of Britains railways.

Yet still cant manage to match even the 37's, 47's and 57's in miles per gallon or miles per casualty, have high track access charges and whos bogies randomly drop things off when they feel like it.

Before you all accuse me of talking rubbish, i had this information first hand off a fleet manager and several drivers of my aquaintance who work for a very prominent mainline operating company.

I suppose its all down to personal preference at the end of the day. I guess i hadnt appreciated the fact that there are still those who would rather preserved railways ignored all diesels, and those who view them as a piece of history that would be better left forgotten

It just staggers me that in this day and age that us diesel boys as viewed as a neccessary evil. These machines have just as much right to be preserved as any steam locomotive.

 

Gents
With all this waffle about if they bring a Diesel I will resign just how many loco drivers/firemen have resigned secondly isn't the presence of an diesel electric prime mover a bit too technical for some hence the handbags in the air.
The management must try and remove the tip in the most cost effective measure possible and this is the way to go unless thoes who hate diesels put their hand in their pockets to fund the difference between the hire of diesel and the hire of a steam locomotive.
Just a thought who on the BB is able to drive the class 73, who passes him /her out because after all it is a steam railway unless of course some of the drivers are silent diesel gricers with the necessary experience, do I detect a crack in the all steam policy, on grounds of econmy it makes sense to use a diesel
Happy christmas PS is the classs 73 from the stewarts lane group?
Engineer

 

For goodness sake folks, calm down!

What dont some of you understand from this earlier posting??

"The 73 is only making a short visit,about 8 weeks, to clear the remainder of the spoil dumped around Imberhorne Lane Bridge...The 08 needs some attention and is not available"

46118

 

Judging by the following image, I would say that the 08 will not be returning to the Bluebell, as it has been repainted in the livery in which it arrived at the Bluebell. No point in repainting the loco just to send it away for maintenance.

http://extension3363.fotopic.net/p49304036.html

I am sure that the use of the 08 and that of the 73 for just 8 weeks will, and has, saved much money that can be used on the extension. Surely it is more important to get to East Grinstead so that the Bluebell can then concentrate on getting back to what it is best at - running an all steam service that everyone enjoys.

EDIT: OPPS Just noted that the pic was of the previous 08 and was taken in March 2008. Sorry!

 

Well Roger , Engineer does have a point about the drivers whether they are qualified to drive the ED?.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion you know just because it does not agree with yours it doesn,t mean thar its wrong.

Best Regards
Chris

 

I understand that this is owned by Dick Garbutt, former Bluebell man.

Regards
Chris

 

Chris/cct: Mercifully I dont have an opinion about the Bluebell and the steam/diesel issue.

I just think sometimes contributors on here can get a bit worked up about something that isn't actually that world-changing if they just chill out and think about it for a while, thats all.
Columbine has since commented that he/she posted before the clarification of why the 73 was arriving.

Very easy to jump to conclusions in the heat of the moment.

Regards

46118