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Bluebell 2009 "Modernisation"

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by davycrocket, Dec 16, 2008.

  1. Axe

    Axe Member

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    As a very regular volunteer Guard at the Bluebell and having already discussed this idea with some of my colleagues, as we see it running a separate early and late train would be more of a hindrance.

    Furthermore on days when a Service 1 timetable (two passenger trains) is operating, the railway needs two drivers, two fireman and two guards as train crews. To run a separate early train as per your suggestion, would require a third driver and guard (we’ll ignore the secondman), who having worked the first service train would then be either stood down or expected to hang around for most of the day twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do. For the last DEMU operated train, again you would need a separate train crew.

    Consequently I’m curious to know and understand just how a DEMU would “assist volunteers in their disposal and preparation tasks, first and last thing”?

    Chris
     
  2. cct man

    cct man Part of the furniture

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    Firstly I'm trying to understand why a deliberately understated opinion such as mine deserves these aggressive responses, and secondly I do most strenuously object to being refered to as 'self opiniated trash' and would request an opinion from the moderator as to the acceptability of such language.

    I have in the past gone on record as saying that a shunter was perfectly acceptable to carry out the spoil removal role and even that I can see virtue in having a Hampshire demu on the line to carry out first and last passenger duties in order to assist volunteers in their disposal and preparation tasks, first and last thing. A mainline diesel is however of a completely different order of things and, for me, a step too far. Such an engine completely destroys the utterly unique atmosphere at Sheffield Park as it did when I was last down there on March 1st. I am perfectly willing to concede (and I would have thought this was clear in my original post) there is some virtue in having the 73 for the limited task of spoil removal but I would by immensely disappointed if such a locomotive were to be a permanent feature on the railway.[/quote:3o5dwa5v]

    I apologise for my choice of words Columbine. These were not aimed at you nor the majority of this forum, just the few that are intent on stirring it thinking it is fun when they have no intension of contributing anything positive to any discussion , saying anything that makes sense, and have contributed nothing to the movement. These few are also those that think their opinion is the only one and I would suggest that now we have more mods they look a little more closely at these "nothings" and ban them as soon as the opportunity arises.

    Regards
    Chris Willis
     
  3. dhic001

    dhic001 Member

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    Maybe you'd care to list those people who you consider to be trash then Chris? That way none of the genuine people here would have any reason to be concerned by your statement.
    Daniel
     
  4. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Spot on Martin, sadly there will always be the self opiniated trash out there who do not volunteer or used to volunteer and now sit on their backsides and whinge, so pathetic.

    Regards
    Chris[/quote:nij7u6f5]

    Is this the same Chris who agreed elsewhere that the Bluebell had sold its soul over the matter of the ED special? :-k
     
  5. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    What would help to put things into perspective is if it was stated on the same website how much the Dukedog is raising through the photo charters at the Llangollen. If my sources are correct then it's contributing way, way more to the Bluebell's cause than the ED special. It is interesting how the website statement draws attention to a clause in the constitution that seemingly allows diesels on the line but fails to mention a statement by the chairman - when the first 08 arrived - that diesels would not work passenger trains and a code of practice was being drawn up to ensure it never happened. Mixed messages indeed.
     
  6. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    On the wider issue of diesel haulage on our heritage lines, the once thought to be "anti-diesel" Severn Valley appears to have settled into a high season timetable that has the first train of the day diesel hauled, and I thought that was to ease the burden on the volunteer steam crews and early starts, together with being "good neighbours" to the nearby residences at Bewdley.
    Maybe as mentioned above the logistics of running a longer Bluebell in the future might require a change of policy/attitude re motive power.

    46118
     
  7. cct man

    cct man Part of the furniture

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    Is this the same Chris who agreed elsewhere that the Bluebell had sold its soul over the matter of the ED special? :-k[/quote:3kll519n]

    For the Bluebell yes, for others?.

    Chris
     
  8. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more. Some people should be banned for constantly stirring, spreading false information and not accepting other peoples opinions. Utter nothings. hear-hear =D> =D> =D> =D>
     
  9. Columbine

    Columbine Member

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    Firstly I'm trying to understand why a deliberately understated opinion such as mine deserves these aggressive responses, and secondly I do most strenuously object to being refered to as 'self opiniated trash' and would request an opinion from the moderator as to the acceptability of such language.

    I have in the past gone on record as saying that a shunter was perfectly acceptable to carry out the spoil removal role and even that I can see virtue in having a Hampshire demu on the line to carry out first and last passenger duties in order to assist volunteers in their disposal and preparation tasks, first and last thing. A mainline diesel is however of a completely different order of things and, for me, a step too far. Such an engine completely destroys the utterly unique atmosphere at Sheffield Park as it did when I was last down there on March 1st. I am perfectly willing to concede (and I would have thought this was clear in my original post) there is some virtue in having the 73 for the limited task of spoil removal but I would by immensely disappointed if such a locomotive were to be a permanent feature on the railway.[/quote:3bbkzzaz]

    I apologise for my choice of words Columbine. These were not aimed at you nor the majority of this forum, just the few that are intent on stirring it thinking it is fun when they have no intension of contributing anything positive to any discussion , saying anything that makes sense, and have contributed nothing to the movement. These few are also those that think their opinion is the only one and I would suggest that now we have more mods they look a little more closely at these "nothings" and ban them as soon as the opportunity arises.

    Regards
    Chris Willis[/quote:3bbkzzaz]

    Apology accepted
     
  10. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    Isnt the important thing public passenger trains? A one-off private excursion for people paying a much higher fare for the priviledge is, in my opinion, a world away from operating public timetabled services.

    Chris
     
  11. Stewie Griffin

    Stewie Griffin Member

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    Edited - pressed the wrong button...
     
  12. David

    David Member

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    Definately agree with you Ian, it would be interesting to see how much money was made from all the charters and loco loan requests/steaming fees when the E4 was in lined black compared to how much money was made with the Class 73 run. Just look how much money was made with the Caley Tank in BR livery, around £9000 is was stated in HR mag. I do agree with what David Wilcock said that if the Bluebell wanted to raise some serious money that they should consider either putting the O1 or C class in BR livery temporarily. Ok D.W. said that around £12000 would be made, that figure maybe debatable, but no doubt it would raise far more money than the one-off charter did with the 73. Albeit it what take a brave soul or two to not only go to the powers that be to get the livery change but also with regard to the C class the chimney would need cutting down as the locos had shorter chimneys in SR and BR days. Some Bluebell fans may not like it, but if the board were more willing to allow some more of their Pre-Grouping locos to go into BR livery for a short period of time only far more money what be forthcoming from charters than what the Class 73 run could ever have achieved.
    Also Chris Dadson has made an excellent comment on the Bluebell e-mail group that says " the front face of the 1996 Timetable does include the words "THE ONLY ALL STEAM RAILWAY IN THE COUNTRY!". So in the past a "no diesel policy" must have existed to a certain extent for that statement to be made and to eventually be broken.
     
  13. cct man

    cct man Part of the furniture

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    I think it would have to be clear that the money raised would be for either the extension after costs had been accounted for, or for the owning loco group, oterwise yes a very good odea.

    Regards
    Chris
     
  14. Stewie Griffin

    Stewie Griffin Member

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    As a well known supermarket says, every little helps. Did people expect the Bluebell to turn down a potential revenue stream at a time when they need all the money they can get to complete the extension? I personally think they should be congratulated for their practical approach to the situation rather than being stifled by unrealistic ideals.

    After all, it is not as though it was a general public service; it was a private charter in much the same way as a photo-charter doesn't represent day to day operations.
     
  15. David

    David Member

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    Agreed and £2500 is better than nothing. But far more income could be made if they repainted a loco or two (C or O1) into BR livery for a short period of time. Caley Tank charters' £9000, charter with the Class 73 - £2500. Something the Bluebell needs to perhaps learn from and look seriously into.
     
  16. stepney60

    stepney60 Nat Pres stalwart

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    When I was down there there was always a "spare" crew knocking about on the roster, presumably they could be used to cover the diesel turn, or at least prepare the steam engine in use while the rostered crew worked the DEMU?

    As to the last train, can't the crew from the first arrival at SP (usually the vintage IIRC) sort out their engine then work the DEMU? A smaller engine would take less work to prep and dispose, so it would work. It's not a brilliant situation, granted, but surely with a bit of forward planning and lateral thinking it could be made to work?
     
  17. stepney60

    stepney60 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Exactly, as a one-off I can't see a problem. It's akin to running a passenger service with something like Normandy, not something you'd do week-in, week-out, but as a one off event it's not a bad idea. Given that the revenue raised from the special went on to fund the hire, fuel and so on, effectively meaning we got several thousand tons of spoil removed for next to nothing, it has to be seen as a good thing? The Bluebell's not exactly flush with cash, so why stretch it further when you can achieve better results for free?
     
  18. PiliPili

    PiliPili New Member

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    So if I drive a Ford, that means I must have a "no Vauxhall Policy"?

    We could be in 1996 (and still are) a steam only railway, without having a policy that we will only ever run steam.

    Pil
     
  19. stepney60

    stepney60 Nat Pres stalwart

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    How can the Bluebell have been the only all steam railway in the country in 1996 when 957 was still resident on the line?
     
  20. John2

    John2 New Member

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    IIRC "THE ONLY ALL STEAM RAILWAY IN THE COUNTRY" was added to the front of the Bluebell Railway timetable in 1996 in response to the only other all steam railway, the East Somerset Railway, getting a 350 diesel shunter the previous year.

    John.
     

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