Bluebell 2009 "Modernisation"

Yes - it was at East Grinstead. I've got some photos somewhere from the event. They painted the loco "Bluebell Blue" as well. See:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/treflyn/2618603449/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnneave/2625328194/

I think it was "preserved" at Isfield (for spares) and then scrapped. However, the Bluebell's musem seems to have a nameplate from it. What's the chance of repainting the visiting 73 and refitting the nameplate?!

Richard

 

Some more information for all those who seem so interested in a diesel at the Bluebell.

Apart from the 08s used for tip removal, there are NO recorded moves by any diesel over what are now Bluebell metals. 'Percy' will be the VERY FIRST main line diesel EVER to run over this track. Even ripping it up all those years ago, a steam loco was used.

Absolutely NONE.
1. It's privately owned.
2. It's paint work is immaculate.
3. The paint scheme is registered with Network Rail as is the loco.

As for a private charter. Tom 92240 is in the right place so as he said, "watch this space". Personnaly, apart from the GN Saloon and possibly the 'OBO' I don't give it a dogs chance.

Why do I say that. Well, there are no air braked coaches on the BB so any diesel loco would have to be vacume. Of course 73136 is dual fitted so that would be OK. Afraid not as 'Percy' will have to work on it's 600 hp diesel at the BB and although it would have no difficulty lifting 6 or even 10 coaches away due to it's still very high tractive effort on diesel, it's chances of reaching the top of the 1 in 75 Freshfield bank without boiling are non existant.

So if you can rustle up say 100 enthusiasts at say £25 per head to fill the max 2 coaches that could be possibly hauled, persuade the staff to come in very early so that a path for the train can be found, persuade the Membership and Board that it would be worth loseing the unique steam only tag for £2500 gross say £2000 net, then it might repeat might be on.

The point being.

Can you do that?

I'm afraid the only pass working that is likely to take place will be with the saloons and an invited guest list.

As 46118 wrote
"Join the BRPS if you want a voice!"

It's a funny old world when only the membership of an organisation can change the rules. :smt014

As an aside. Way back in 1976 it was estimated that for an outlay of less that £1000, complete control of the BB could have been obtained by buying memberships and useing their proxy votes. :-k

 

Obviously you know very little about the Bluebell and its history. The 73 is totally unauthentic for the railway, as is the 08. Only one diesel ever ran on the line, and that was the contractors locomotive on the removal contract. Unfortunately for it, its ran away and damaged itself, and was replaced by Birch Grove and 2650. As for a Battle of Britain on the Bluebell, yes, totally authentic, Bulleid pacifics ran on the line in BR days on specials.
Daniel

 

So what? If I go to a National Trust property with a Capability Brown garden it doesn't spoil my enjoyment knowing there's a high powered petrol mower in the gardener's shed FFS!
This stupid elitist snobbery regarding the use of steam for everything and then justifying it with an "I-know-more-than-you-so-there" is not even arrogance - it is poisonous childish nonsense. Poisonous because it turns people away and makes you and the railway a very unattractive proposition.
So even if you steamed up a loco at great expense to haul spoil trains for the sake of some artificial sense of purity you are still excavating the spoil with a state of the art excavator so at what point does your precious authenticity end? You have computers in the office don't you? Your turn diagrams are laid out on an Excel Spreadheet aren't they? You even carry a mobile phone in the pocket of your authentic 1920 uniform no doubt.
A diesel for P-way and infrastructure work saves money that can be better spent on other, better things. That's why they were invented in the first place if you think that the use of a Class 73 will turn away single revenue paying customer then I hope you aren't let anywhere near the BLuebell's business plan. Talking of which check out the WSR's - common sense and long term security.

 

But at a NT property it IS the Capability Brown garden the people come to see (not the lawnmower , a very unfortunate comparison with a 73 perhaps [-X ) ) and at a Steam Railway it is steam engines they come to see. You would not spoil a CB garden by installing timber decking and patio heater would you so as far as is possible the Bluebell are correct to maintain their steam only philosphy. Other railways are different but the Bluebell is possibly unique in that it does not have a diesel heritage and I can see why it should stay that way . Why would they throw that away for a mere trifle of cash just to satisfy a bunch of people who just want the mileage and wouldnt dream of riding behind a steam loco (paraphrasing earlier comments)

 

Would, say, a couple of carefully managed out-of-hours trips with the ED really cause mass public disillusionment with the Bluebell's steam railway offer?

 

It's their call... we should respect that

 

On spoil trains? The public come to see spoil trains? That's a new one. Diesel enthusiasts and those such as myself who wish the railway well would come to watch a class 73 on a spoil train but the railway's mass family clientele would neither know nor care. The spoil trains are the Bluebell's Honda mower in the National Trust garden, to use my earlier analogy. A diesel is a sensible pragmatic cost effective choice. The pointless pursuit of absolute authenticity to a ridiculous degree satisfies nobody - not even those who pursue it, because it is unattainable. You just bankrupt yourself trying and create a morale destroying battle with everyone around you.

 

The spoil trains are the Bluebell's Honda mower in the National Trust garden, to use my earlier analogy. A diesel is a sensible pragmatic cost effective choice.

Agreed Mr Domeyhead agreed.

Would those "purists" who object so strongly to anything but steam being used on spoil trains be prepared tp put their hands om their pockets and pay the difference?, I think not somehow, they are the "I want it but don,t want to pay for it brigade".

Regards
Chris Willis

 

The best thing about 73136 going to the Bluebell Rly is that SO many electrons are being disturbed in the course of this thread.
Now, what if BB had hired a diesel loco with a real engine in it, that could do a 6 coach train (don't know what the length limit is on BB) with say 350 seats on offer.?????

Charge £100 per seat for a one day only - £35K.
Do it 100 times, and you get your £3.5 million.
But after the novelty wore off after the first round trip....

 

Well what about the ED with the VEP?

 

The time needed to clear the tip will mean the ED is long gone, (and perhaps so will the VEP!) before their will be track linking the two.

I also note that it has been suggested that Diesels are cheaper to run... Not so, I am currently in Switzerland where they have been replacing Diesels with new steam locomotives, which are environmentally friendly and save money over the life span!

The only problem they seem to have is to raise the money for the higher initial cost of the steam engine,

 

I would be interested to know more.....

 

I'm not a Bluebell member and it remains one of very few preserved railways in the UK I have never visited - probably due to the lack of diesels. Can ANY railway pass up the chance of £2500, probably easily achievable with the right publicity, for a charter with a diesel? I would be there for a start! I suspect the vast majority of the Bluebell's paying customers care very little for the line's "we've never run a diesel on a passenger train and we're not starting now" stance.

Talk to the likes of PLEG and Preserved Diesels and make some extra money while it is there I say, how much will you normally take in a January/February weekend in the shop/buffet?

Good luck to Bluebell with the extension in any event.

 

Your first point is correct but I'm sorry your second is rubbish - whether intentionally misleading or not. Firstly any steam prototype developed for use on SBB today would not be recognisable by a Gresley or a Maunsell , let alone a Bluebell purist. The advantage of any diesel transmission is that it is ready to go within minutes of startup and it does not consume much energy when idling between turns (and on spoil trains there is more waiting than pulling). Neither of those is true if sufficient water has to be heated to a superheated state to create a usable reservoir. If steam propulsion )whether by piston or turbine) is the answer why did none of the big manufacturers demonstrate a steam engine at the recent Berlin expo, where the real money is spent by the world's railways? There are always R & D projects about but that does not validate your hypothesis - remember every rail network in the world replaced steam with diesel (or electric) in a more or less independent but unanimous rejection - they can't all have been wrong

 

I have no problem at all with the Bluebell using a diesel but cannot stand people criticising them because they CHOOSE not to. I think people complaining because they cannot use their toys on somebody else's trainset is "poisonous childish nonsense" - after all, what else are you doing posting here?

 

Who are THEM and who does the CHOOSING ?.

Now who is using "poisonous childish rubbish"?, this is a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Happy new year
Chris Willis

 

I have no problem at all with the Bluebell using a diesel but cannot stand people criticising them because they CHOOSE not to. I think people complaining because they cannot use their toys on somebody else's trainset is "poisonous childish nonsense" - after all, what else are you doing posting here?


I agree with Chris.
The Bluebell Railway Are using a Class 73 which is a sensible objective decision - so they didn't CHOOSE not to, as you put it. Furthermore neither this loco nor any other diesel is "my" toy so what is that personalisation of a business argument all about? Do you think I and others are part of some kind of conspiracy to force diesels onto an objecting railway? Well I certainly am not,
My "bag" is commonsense commercial decision making for preserved railways, and the debagging of entrenched closed minds with unrealistic expectations and attitudes, that's all. The Bluebell made a sound decision on business grounds - it is those touchy puritan souls who are offended by it for no logical defensible reason that I criticised.

 

Surely this is what a Forum like this is all about?

Constructive critiscism, new ideas, this all helps to see the bigger picture surely?.

We have anything between 7 to 10 volunteers at Medstead on a Saturday these days young and the not so young, and if someone has a better idea than myself to push the job forward, please let me know.

As a member of our team has said to me on many occasions,"I always have agitators in my team at work. They are not always the most popular of people but they get the job done on time and most important on budget".

Food for thought?

Regards
Chris Willis