Bluebell loco crisis deepens

Yeah I couldn't agree more with you. I do remember back in the early 90's I think the owning group took 80064 from the Bluebell to the South Devon as they thought there was more chance of the loco being overhauled there. It never was, so the group moved 80064 back to the Bluebell and there it has sat in the shed every since. The H class was owned by a private consortium and was waydown the overhaul queue until recently when the Bluebell took ownership of the engine and now as a result has jumped up the queue. But why some sort of arrangement can't be met with the owners of 80064 I really don't know, I guess the Bluebell are worried that once the loco is overhauled the owners will take it elsewhere.

 

Conditions can be easily imposed that the railway would not lose out if it overhauled the locomotive.

Ah such a shame, so many railways would love a few Standard 4 tanks rusting in their sidings waiting for their chance to shine....

 

What you have to remember, Neil, is that Standard Tanks are viewed with greater fervour than they would be anywhere else at the Bluebell, because of that last train. They're seen as almost demi-Gods of steam, all because the last BR train was hauled by 80154. If it had been a Maunsell mogul, though the line would be keen to have one, they wouldn't hold the same hold over the Bluebell psyche of "we must have a standard tank" as they do currently.

One loco I missed out of my earlier synopsis was the E4, which in my opinion dovetails in with 73082 and 92240.

 

Yeah it most sad what is happening down here at the Bluebell. I'll probably always consider it the best preserved railway in the UK but things are going down hill here drastically. Today my wife and I booked up our annual week's holiday to North Yorkshire in the summer. We visited the NYMR last year and they had 5 locos in steam for a mid-week service - 75029, 45212, The Great Marquess, Repton and 60007. That doesn't include the Q6, S15, Super D, 45231 and 6619 that were dead on shed but are all in ticket I think and could be used. And the 5 locos that were in steam all in BR livery - you would've loved that Chris! \/ And apart from 1 or 2,their carriages were first class in terms of cleanliness and presentation, the K4 looked superb with a full rake of blood & custards behind her. But it did make me think, this was what the Bluebell used to be like not that long ago. Now we're cancelling passenger services because we don't have the motive power, how has it gone so wrong.

 

We keep getting told this, but I don't really believe it. It has been stated that to clear the rest of the tip needs £4M... Well that a looks very difficult target, from the above we can see that £2M of that SHOULD be spent on contract overhauls of 541, 1618, 75027 and 488. The railway will then have enough steam locomotives with spare capacity, it will then need to expand the loco works and staff (or the funding of contract overhauls) with even more money.

The planing restrictions have already be eased, They are supposed to be at EG by now! They should be enquiring with the council as to the planing restrictions. There is no chance they will be forced to close Kingscote, imagine the bad press the council would get if they even thought about it!

I do not see what the problem is to place a target of a start on clearing the rest of the tip at 2015 and over the next 5 year spend ALL the money on contract overhauls of locos / carriages. If this does not happen I can see the extension continuing to be beset by delays with an opening in 2015 or so and not enough locos and carriages to maintain a decent service.

Chris; Those former Bluebell volunteers at the Spa Valley / MHR, will no doubt enjoy be compared with rats.

 

What todays NYMR shows is that a situation can be turned around with the right management, I remember when the NYMR was down to one steamable loco and the Class 24.

Dave

 

With regards to Chris' slightly cyncial outlook on the loco fleet, firstly 21C123 worked very well until it's five year exam, after which it then had several very bad spells of unreliability. It is not 'shagged', the reason it was stopped is because the firebox plate is worn in a few places to a point where it is likely to be extremely troublesome. Secondly, the 'unreliable' 592 has had quite a few stoppages, but the majority have been down to errors in the manufacture of the springs. There is a pin running through all the leaves bar the top one, so each leaf has a hole through the centre. The edge of the hole is supposed to be radiused, acting as a stress reliever. When the hole isn't radiused, you can imagine the results, and on one occasion a tender spring was changed at Horsted because it had broken clean in half. This cannot be attributed to the loco itself. No, and not the track either, the springs were simply not fit for the purpose. I believe that this has now been solved, so I don't know what the current failure is for, that is if the loco is actually stopped. I assume it is because otherwise there'd be something else to haul the infamous cancelled train?

 

So the question also becomes will the Bluebell be able to release 9017 in 3 weeks time ?

I don't think any railway is exactly flush with motive power . The NYMR is quite dependant on hired in loco's , The SVR probably lower than they would like to be. MHR doesn't have a surfeit of engines

We keep forgetting that we are running more and more trains with increasingly older motive power which even allowing for the skills existing in preservation will not go on forever

 

Get your facts straight sir, the chairman himself didn't personally want the thumper, he merely initiated a vote with the membership to see if H&SUPS's unit would be allowed stabling and running on the line. The members voted no, we didn't get it. Simple! The other diesels are hired in to make sure our now seriously depleted steam loco fleet doesn't wear itself out even further on engineers trains!

Some of that is perhaps some fanciful notions...maybe lack of news to those not in the know may have lead to such assumptions, i don't know.

We have lots of broken engines, i agree with you there and only the difficult ones are left, agree there too. But to say 1618, 75027 and 541 have been forgotten about? By whom...the MLS have a U that is closer to steaming than the other, why concentrate on another for now?
541, not forgotten because she is MLS's next project!
928, needs a lottery grant to restore..got the money then donate it and it'll get done...
73802, in bits as the Camelot society work on her..I think they know what needs to be done
592, keep getting duff springs delievered to us, hardly our fault?
672, been keeping the winter trains running, unlike the other winter stalwart, the 01.
34059, engines keep breaking and the little staff there is juggle betweeen keeping the trains running and getting a new engine out. No wonder the schedule keeps getting pushed back.

 

Thanks for the compliments about the NYMR! However, as has already been mentioned above, The NYMR motive power goes in peaks and troughs and there are people who are concerend about a possible forthcoming motive power shortage. The NYMR & Bluebell are not unique in this and I'd suggest most railways have gone or will go through similar at times. What perhaps makes it harder to accept is that the Bluebell have always seemed to have plenty of locos available.

We've all got our opinions (myself included) and most people seem to think that they know how to run the Bluebell (and every other railway) better than the ones that are doing the job. I suspect that very few of these people are at the sharp end, managing a heritage railway. FWIW, I think that the Bluebell are right to go to East Grinstead. It may be short term pain but it will be long term gain and, once there, that pain will soon be forgotten as everyone applauds them for doing so. I can see a similar parallel with the NYMR. There were many who doubted the NYMR's decision to go to Whitby. These doubters shouted loudly that it would be the death of the NYMR, indeed a 'bridge too far.' It may not have cost the £4.5m(?) that getting to East Grinstead will cost but it has been a huge strain on finances, motive power, coaches and operational staff and still is. Overdue repairs to the existing infrastructure and overhauls of locos have been deferred due to money being channelled to Whitby and it is not over yet. One problem is that it has perhaps been too successful and talk is now of crossing trains at Grosmont and better facilities at Whitby itself, which will all cost huge sums of money.

But back on topic. No railway can stand still and it must expand or contract and it must have goals to aim for. Going to East Grinstead is that expansion and goal. It will overcome its motive power crisis and it will still be around in 10 and 20 years time.
(It might have to sell a couple of locos, though, but that's another issue!)

 

That has since changed from a cancellation to a combining of the 3pm and 3:32pm service. Checked our traffic notice which shows both sets will indeed be combined just as the Golden Arrow used to be back in the early 90's.

 

Re Loco's; has the Yanke tank been forgotten 30073 and don't forget the other projects the Atlantic and the Std 2 tender engine.
When one stands back and looks at what is going on or maybe not I would ask this;
1) Is the management aware of the general state of the Loco fleet condition if so what is it doing about it
2) Is there sufficient funds to carry out the required overhauls or are short cuts being made which will eventually show up later as a failure
3) Is there sufficient suitable labour available to carry out the overhaul work
4) Is the labour divided between maintance and restoration
5) Is the workshop sufficiently large enough to accommodate both sets of staff for all this work
6) Who is the qualified engineering manager who is responsible for overseeing that the BB Railway has sufficient motive power available does that person report to the board, or is it a board member
7) If so does the board take notice what action is it should be taking or is it a case of sorry no money bodge it up.
People have commented on other areas of BB notably C&W plus P Way being short of money and qualified staff is this yet another area which is being run down just to get a few more pounds to go to east Grinstead
I do hope that the membership take notice of what is happening to a once great preservstion society as it accelerates to
into a spiral of self distruction
Secondly the railway is also supposed to be building a carriage shed what has happened incorporating loco works museum etc what of this project
Has it stalled for lack of finance or project management somthing that I think is missing from the comments on this forum
Just my sad views as I like wooden bodied coaches and vintage Engines
Engineer

 

Sorry to interrupt an internal debate! Can anyone tell me what 65 has died with, and how long it is expected to be out? We were rather hoping to see it in May, y'see.....

 

Fireline - you're not the only one hoping to see it in May. She's meant to go to Kent and East Sussex Rly for gala 2-4 May. She used to work that line in BR passenger service days. I hope that the visit still stands.

John

 

I know, John. That's exactly what I meant!

 

30073, the NL tank and Normandy have all been talked about, as alternatives to the diesels. Because the extension needs to be finished yesterday, time has always prevented anything other than talk. The amount spent hiring in motive power will have more than paid for one overhaul so far.
on your other points,
1. The management do know the director wrote a report about a forth coming crisis, that was leaked to this group some time ago. It is one of the few case when he has been found to be right, even though more than a few people foresaw this happening a long time before he did. As to what they are doing hmmm ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
2. short answer NO [-( [-(
3. short answer NO [-( [-(
4. At least one full time member of staff is a full time fitter, although I did hear a rumour that he had gone and had not been replaced.
5. The workshop is not large enough, they could do with a boiler shop, or start contract overhauls.
6. the locoworks has a qualified manager, but the board member is only qualified to fail to fix computers. (he is some sort of computer 'expert' for a 'university')
7. The board is said to "have one brain cell", and that is focused on the extension. They really have no money to do anything different.

 

Lot’s of railways suffer a lack of motive power at some point in time. It just happens that this time it’s the Bluebell that is suffering. The real trouble will start when the extension is finished off. The locos stabling point and works are at one end of the railway. Meaning a possible light loco move to pick up the first down train every running day. This will put about an extra 30 mile round trip per day on a loco unless both service trains start at Sheffield Park. Maybe it’s about time they started to use a diesel rail car to help out. Most other railways have gone down this route.

 

Faulty tubes, replacements are due to be fitted this week hopefully in time for the gala!

 

I know this is off topic Tom, but will Maunsell drop light 1336 also be in traffic for branch line weekend?.

Best regards
Chris Willis

 

Not sure, i doubt it. I think I saw her in the works last weekend. I can definitely say 4279 won't be used though! The timetable and consist crew refused to use her in the state she is in.