If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Bluebell Motive Power

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Orion, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    3,827
    Likes Received:
    447
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    The loco's being worked on this year according to the Bluebell news received in December are : -

    263 estimated completion February. 847 estimated completion July. 541 estimated completion December.
    34059 commence repair work after 847 complete, for completion by Easter 2013 - cost estimated to be 60k monies need to be raised.



    Overhaul of 65 expected to commence Spring 2013.
     
  2. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    3,827
    Likes Received:
    447
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    75027 and 21C123 will require major repairs. 92440 is estimated to need about a years work but is not required at present.
     
  3. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    74
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Builder
    Location:
    Near 74D
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Also, in 9 or so years time, 178, 323 and Baxter will be withdrawn pretty close together and with Stepney absolutely knackered, and as far as I know, not much interest in overhauling Fenchurch there will be no small locos to work the light passenger duties (observation car specials, two coach trains in the very quietest weekends) so it makes sense for the Villas gang (who overhauled Baxter) to make a start on her now.
     
  4. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    114
    Occupation:
    Brick Machine Operator
    Location:
    Haywards Heath
    Yeah thats why I said one day although didn't know 92240 was in that good condition especially after spending the last few years outside at Horsted with 75027 (although they are being painted at the moment)

    178 and 473 will be withdrawn a few weeks apart in January/February 2020 followed by Baxter in about August later 2020. 323 will be withdrawn around February 2021. Stepney has about 3 years left as she was given a 5 Year ticket but to only be used on very light duties (because as you say she is rather knackered).
     
  5. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    74
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Builder
    Location:
    Near 74D
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Of course we're both making something of an assumption that the currently operational locos run to near the end of their tickets and there are no major failures prompting early withdrawals.

    Going back to 21C123, some components for her new firebox have been delivered Bulleid Society | Latest News
     
  6. kieranhardy

    kieranhardy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    1,499
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    Clacton on Sea - Essex
    How can you give such exact dates? Although yes it has been said that the locomotives may not last for that long but why are you giving dates to 10 years?

    Boiler certificates do not last for 10 years, or even 7.

    Boiler 'tickets' last for 14 months at a time. Near to the end of this the locomotive will have another inspection to see if it can be cleared for a further 14 months use. This continues until the locomotive fails an inspection or is withdrawn during an existing 14 month running for any number of reasons.

    Websites like the bluebell don't really help to lift this rumour of a 10 year ticket when they give dates 10 years after the overhaul for locomotives and have this on their main page:

    'After ten years' operation all steam locomotives require a complete strip-down for a boiler overhaul and insurance inspection. '
     
  7. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    114
    Occupation:
    Brick Machine Operator
    Location:
    Haywards Heath
    I was just taking a guess. My wording didn't really suggest that it was though.
     
  8. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,039
    Likes Received:
    351
    Location:
    Winchester
    I'm led to believe from a BB member 80151 is now running under a restricted use. To allow her to see out her boiler ticket.
     
  9. Avonside1972

    Avonside1972 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    2
    Dont quote me on this, but I'd say pretty knackered. IIRC the cylinder block has suffered after years of exposure to the elements. Tanks, cab, bunker need almost complete replacement. Possibly part of the main frames too? Boiler, are either of the spares any good?
    As for paint scheme, by the time 27 Primrose is finished, I should think 178 Nettle will be on short time so my guess would be SECR.
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    12,535
    Likes Received:
    12,624
    Location:
    21C102
    27 requires shed loads of work - unfortunately, she has been outside for much of the last 40 years, part disassembled, so there is a lot to do. However, interest in the loco seems to have picked up of late and fund raising is a bit more high profile, so hopefully something visible will happen soon. It is likely to be a "back burner" project though, probably done by some of the Villas team, who previously worked on Baxter.

    One big problem is the boiler. There are 4 P tank boilers on the railway, but the best two are on 178 and 323. I suspect the best option for 27 may be an entirely new boiler rather than try to repair one of the two that remain. She will also need replacement of part of the frames.

    It's a bit early to speculate about liveries, surely! But as the speculation has begun ( :) ), one possibility is that she would appear as ROD 5027 - she went to France during WW1 and it would be nice to see that commemorated, though probably no longer feasible to have her ready by 2015 for the centenary. (Interestingly, the KESR's P tank 753 also went to France).

    Elsewhere... someone earlier in the thread (I think) mentioned that the H class could replace 80151. Not really true: the H has the same boiler and motion as the O1 no. 65, so will fit the same duties as 592 and B473. Really, she will replace 9017. In other words, she'll likely have a rostered load limit of 150 tons (allowable to increase to 185 tons if operationally necessary), so couldn't do the 6 coach trains of mark 1s that the standard tank can take.

    Tom
     
  11. E-G Media

    E-G Media New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student, Freelance TV Presenter
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent
    More to the point, the cylinder block would, most likely, need replacing.
    When the works staff were cannibalizing the springs to go on 'Bluebell', I chipped away the layers of rust on 27's block; only to find that the wall around the chest was barely thick enough to receive any patchwork. Now she's back in the rain, most of that rust has probably come back.

    Someone in the Works told me that interest may result in the batch manufacture of spares for all the 'P's, seeing as the K&ESR one should be due for overhaul soon. But, like Tom says, that looks like a backburn scheme.

    There is evidence to suggest that either LBSCR 'Improved Green' and a Midland Rly styled 'Crimson Lake' were tried when Bluebell's updated livery was in the design stages.
    So, watch this space...!
     
  12. twr12

    twr12 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    200
    Kieran

    HMRI expect Preserved Railways to comply with

    http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/RSP6-locoblrs.pdf

    Page 15, para 29. When ORR say "best practice", are you suggesting the Bluebell should not comply with "best practice"?
     
  13. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,204
    Likes Received:
    3,661
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chartered Certified Accountant
    Location:
    North Yorkshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I know there are other members who have a full technical grasp of this (which I certainly don't) but from what I have heard but Kieran is absolutely spot on - an "annual" certificate actually lasts 14 months - without out that, no insurance.

    Likewise, it is usually the insurance company that insists on a full internal and external examination every 10 years. For narrow fireboxes (like 75027), that is a "boiler off" job. A wider box (92240 for example) may be capable of examination on the frames. With a retube, it is possible to get insurance approval for an 11th and I have even heard of a 12th year. In fact, many hard working locos will have work every 5 years maximum to try and avoid several years out of traffic. One or two owners achieve this in a winter so the loco doesn't miss a complete operating season but that is really the "Holy Grail" - in most cases it does take a little longer!

    In reality, the rules are the maxima - the paragraph you refer to places the judgement on a competent person and this person will know a loco and may consider 10 years too long or be happy with an extension. My experience is that boilersmiths are happier to think about extensions when they have themselves seen inside the empty boiler shell and more hesistant when they haven't.

    Another major factor is the extent of work the boiler has had since BR days. Many boiler have now "used up" remaining boiler life from BR days, and need major surgery, but many have also had repairs rather total rebuild, usually for cost or possibly technical reasons. If a boiler is truly "bottomed" properly, then a new 40 year life can be considered as having started - not my non-technical view, but that of a highly respect BR regional CME with both steam and diesel experience (and electrics!). It is the extent of previous work that a competent person will probably have most in mind when deciding whether it is time for a total strip and rebuild of a boiler.

    As I say, not a tehcnical view but a summary of what I have learnt form those with the technical knowledge over the years.

    Steven
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. twr12

    twr12 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    200
    As usual for you Steven, a thorough summing up of the situation.
     
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    12,535
    Likes Received:
    12,624
    Location:
    21C102
    Indeed - 80151 is currently in the 11th year of a "ten year" certificate. :) In her case, the relatively small amount of work required by the insurers, coupled with the fact she would then be available for the Santa season, was cheaper to carry out than hiring a locomotive in for Christmas. The insurance runs until May 29th 2012 I believe, though whether she will stop before then I don't know. Effectively, she has achieved what was required of her, which was to run through December without trouble. Turned out to be a wise decision, given the later problems with Archie which meant she wasn't available for the Santa season.

    Tom
     
  16. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,019
    Likes Received:
    2,157
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    You're getting the hang of this boiler stuff, now Steven! 30926 and 75029, amongst many others, show that there is no such thing as a ten year 'ticket'. Fourteen months is as much as you'll get and even this is at the discretion of the Competent Person. I've known them give less.
     
  17. Avonside1972

    Avonside1972 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    2
    I like the sound of Improved Engine Green, SECR style with the name PRIMROSE on it! Will make up for the lack of a Terrier or two.

    Talking about cylinder blocks and Terriers, two sets were cast for Fenchurch and Stepney, one set has been sold to the SVR for use on Sutton/Whitechapel, has a replacement set been made yet?
     
  18. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,039
    Likes Received:
    351
    Location:
    Winchester
  19. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    114
    Occupation:
    Brick Machine Operator
    Location:
    Haywards Heath
    Any news on 263. The Bluebell website aren't really releasing any info on how the overhaul is progressing and same with 847 which is also due back this year.
     
  20. YoungRailwayMan

    YoungRailwayMan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    College Student
    Location:
    Devon
    When Is 34059 Sir Archibald Sinclair And 9017 Earl Of Berkley Returning To Service

    Can Anyone Help

    Many Thanks Young Railway Man
     

Share This Page