Bluebell Northern Extension - so what's occurring then?

Hopefully this week will see a resumption of work. At least the next two or three days look ok!

 

Just how many of these passers by, that you feel compelled to be a tribune for, have have any civil engineering qualifications? None I suspect so their comments and views do not deserve a wider audience as they are irrelevant.

Your continuing negative comments are in my view beginning to be a drag on the efforts of the Bluebell to fund raise. What is important is no longer the schedule and whether it is delayed by the weather but raising £570,000, still a prodigious sum and comparable to that needed to repair Chicken Curve on the GWSR.

Continual carping and moaning on the popular website you control does not encourage people to give money to the project and lowers the morale of hard working volunteers, who are seeing their efforts denigrated by ill informed "comment", and are understandably angry about it.

 

Quite a few posters on here, including myself, have criticised the Bluebell website for very poor information put out to the general public about this work. Quite frankly, the Bluebell is its own worst enemy. Lack of information means that people lose interest, which leads to less funds coming in. You mentioned Chicken Curve. The GWSR have given concise updates on what is happening and what work is planned in the future to enable the line to reopen. The Bluebell have not even explained properly what the exact plans are, e.g. Gradient diagram for the new trackbed, planned drainage etc. At least Mr. Philpott provides the public who are interested with up to date photos of the work.

 

Quite agree ith you and ,overthere, with Robert who, fortunately, give us freely his precious time for inform us very acutely
The Bluebell "sense of com" is frankly appalling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
regards
Noel

 

Well the GWSR came in for a fair bit of criticicism themselves for some time until they provided regular updates, which they were not doing. These were not prolific, usually at 6 weeks intervals with a maximum of six photos and the Blubell has at least equalled this and also put out two professional appeal movies, with all the information anyone could want, which the GWSR hasnt.

Like you I appreciate the regular updates on the Philpott site. The only point I take issue with is the negative commentary based on back of a fag packet calculations and the vox pops of passers by.

 

Guys
Without going into the politics of the Bluebell or any other preserved Railway for that matter, I can only say that communication is possibly the most important thing for any volunteer. Too many Railways have management that have the attitude of ,"we will tell you things on a need to know basis, I am in charge here".

When will management realize that volunteers are the life blood ?. Granted you cannot run a Railway without crucial staff because of operational and H&S needs so far from to say the unthinkable perhaps the two sides should work together?

apologies for going off topic.

Regards
Chris:

 

I'll second those comments Chris.

 

I agree 100% that proper and regular communication with your staff and volunteers is paramount. However, it is less so with those not involved in any way. Most people have a quest for knowledge, especially with regard to things we are interested in, but we are not entitled to it. On the other hand, a good publicity machine should seek to capitalise on this desire for knowledge and information.
We are all armchair critics and can easily criticise. However, everything is done for a reason and, unless we know that reason, it is difficult to be truly critical of any decision or activity. The Bluebell are doing things the way they are for reasons that we are not party to.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Say what? Since the end of January this year there have been updates on January 21st, February 6th, February 24th, March 8th, March 19th, April 2nd, April 19th, May 2nd, May 17th and June 7th - i.e. 10 in 5 months, or about one every two weeks.

In addition to which there was a permanent way progress report on June 7th, and a fundraising appeal on May 2nd also mentioned the next steps to be taken.

The weekly emails from the Bluebell are welcome and give some sense of what's happening, but the direct reports from the civil engineers at the GWSR, being straight from the "horse's mouth", are really a lot more detailed, authoritative and informative.

The Other Noel

 

Much as I hate to let the facts get in the way of a good bit of Bluebell bashing, but for all those complaining of a lack of updates: the Bluebell extension page (Bluebell Railway - East Grinstead Extension Progress) has updates on 12/12/2011; 27/02/2012; 24/03/2012; 02/04/2012; 16/04/2012; 10/05/2012; 30/05/2012; 05/06/2012; 19/06/2102. I make that 9 updates in 6 months, or about one every 3 weeks on average. Not to mention the weekly Bluebell newsletter, and two major film updates explaining the project (available now on YouTube - see my signature for the latest), and which have been (one) / will be (the other) distributed on DVD to all Bluebell members. Plus anyone interested (you don't have to be a Bluebell member) can join the Bluebell Yahoo group (the "Chit Chat group") which also has updates; the more significant of which I try to repeat here, particularly where they add further clarification to what is publicly known about the project. There is also a Facebook page, but I can't comment on what goes on there, as I am not a member. So I hardly think it is justifiable to claim the railway is not doing much to keep people up to date.

It is also interesting that I started a thread on here specifically about the work at Kingscote when it started (which, may lack the glamour of pushing new rails towards EG, but is an integral part of the extension, which can't proceed without it); as that thread received precisely no replies, I guess people aren't that interested in what is going on with the project :smile:

As I and others have made the point frequently before: Robert's page is useful in as much as it shows photos of progress (though there are several other photographers who provide a similar level of detail, generally without the fanfare; just look on Flickr for example). Where many people take exception though is in the commentary that accompanies the photos: much of it is factually wrong. At the very least, when I am told one thing by the project team, drawing on the professional advice they are given; and am told something else by people with no apparent professional expertise in construction, I know where I prefer to take my information. Your mileage may vary, of course - it's a free world.

Tom

 

I find your comments quite extraordinary. As has been debated on this thread ad infinitum there appears to be a massive problem with communication of what is going on with the extension. Look at the official website today,it has less than 3 lines of news and that is noted to be over a week old even when it was posted on 19 June. How do you expect donors(of which I am one) to give more money unless they can see how the project is progressing? I can't recall "any carping or moaning" on the Philpot website,he provides an informed view and film and pictures which the official site so notably fails to do(or not nearly often enough). Who are these volunteers who are "angry",and if they happen to be then surely their best course of action would be to urge the Bluebell to update the official website more effectively,thus ensuring that the official company viewpoint is promoted?

 

Exactly.

Unfortunately, since the rest of us aren't privy to private updates on "professional advice ... given [to] ... the project team", we don't really have the same choice you do, do we?

Look, I think most of us can understand that there are some things one can't discuss - e.g. negotiations with third parties. But what I think you're hearing is unhappiness from people who really do i) support heritage rail, and ii) the Bluebell in particular (I certainly do), so it's not just carping from people who are comitted naysayers. When people who wish you well are unhappy, it's probably worth listening.

The Other Noel

 

OK, what I meant by that line was what is freely available in the outlets I mentioned - I'm not implying any "private" source of info not available to all and sundry. The only private info about the project that has recently emerged is the discussion about the timetable and other matters that was announced at the AGM; it is right that that went to members first, but once "out in the wild", it was well reported here and elsewhere.

The reason I phrased the statement the way I did is that actually the project team has put plenty of info out in the public domain (most notably about the volume to be removed; the number of trains required, the gradients through the tip etc). Some naysayers in their wisdom consistently stated that those estimates were all wrong, that progress was not being made, that the Railway should give up rather than waste more money etc etc - right up to the point that the professional estimates turned out to be right and naysayers wrong... Hence my statement that i would rather believe what the project team told me (via public sources, not private ones) rather than what uninformed bystanders said. Especially frustrating as the correct information was in the public domain but people chose to ignore it.

I take the point. But how many updates do people want - are updates every 3 weeks plus two professionally made films not enough?

Anyway, I'm guessing that everyone will have an entrenched view by now - when there is some substantive news to report, I'll report it.

Tom

 

What an arrogant turn of phrase.

Does it matter if people making comments are qualified in any subject?
Do you comment on any sport or politics on the news?
If you do are you qualified in that subject?

I think you may be surprised at the qualifications and knowledge that readers of these comments actually possess.

What people on here actually want is regular information of a decent standard and accuracy. Not waffle.
It is very logical that if no official source is provided then speculation is bound to occur.
However if someone is prepared to stand up and provide at least some information then their points of view are bound to be commented upon, for good or bad.

As for whether or not I am qualified to comment.
9 years driving diggers through the sort of muck you are working with.
40 years in active Rail preservation around the country.
HNC in Civil Engineering
20 years of work on Railway Track Renewals doing design and planning with site work on the renewal itself.

 

Well yes it does actually if you intend to post those comments on a website that is read by 4-5000 people.

If those comments are inaccurate and may jeopardise the efforts of others to raise 1/2 million pounds to achieve a wholly worthwhile project.

Surely with all your qualifications you can see the need to to either be properly informed or else keep quiet.

 

You have just proved Ploughman's point.

 

Hi all,

as an outside oberserver and very casual donator, I don't feel left out.

Following Jamessquared's post from yesterday morning, I had a look at the Bluebell extension website and it looks to me, as if all the information was there. The construction team was busy remodelling Kingscote, which has been finished just in time. The design of the cutting has been finalised only now and track should be back at Imberhorne Lane bridge some time in July 2012. This is no insider information, it's taken from the website.

So the only bit of information that might be missing is what the final plans for the cutting look like and how this is to be achieved. Maybe someone who is in a position to share this with the general public might like to enlighten all those who are waiting eagerly.

Regards

Christoph

 

It will be interesting to see how much of the clay capping material has to be moved elsewhere, presumably by rail to HK for further use, and also how much of the remaining waste can be left on-site, but with some moving around, such that with only a single line cutting instead of double track, the waste can be used to recontour one side of the cutting, netted over, sprayed with whatever it is they use to form a stable seed bed, and then seeded/grassed over. Drains in, ballast down, track laid....

Someone in the know will have the answers!

 

How so?

His point was that everyone is entitled to an opinion, which I don't dispute. My point is that is that Mr Philpott isn't everyone, he has a website with many followers and his negative observations, which in the past have been proved to be 100% incorrect, could damage the aims of the Railway he supports.

A different point entirely, or is this too subtle for you?