Bluebell Northern Extension - so what's occurring then?

It's not the point you make but the way you say it. As above!

P.H.

 

Bryan

I agree 100% with that. But look at the facts:

- An official website update, generally written by the Infrastructure Director, on average every 3 weeks. If that isn't accurate, I don't know what is.
- Two professionally made films, available on YouTube for anyone to see and sent to Bluebell members. The latest one has about 4,000 views so far just on YouTube.
- A booklet (available in the shop and sold in aid of Northern Extension funds), detailing the project and with many "before" and "after" type photos, going back many years to the first stages of construction north of Kingscote up to the running of the waste removal trains.
- And in addition, the "Tenner for the Tip" / "Fiver for the Finish" sales people (many of whom are directly involved as volunteers in the infrastructure side of the railway and therefore are very well briefed) have, based on funds raised, spoken to over 25,000 passengers directly - plus many others in direct earshot - and are able to explain in detail about the project.

In the light of the above, I'm struggling to understand your comment about "no offical source". How much more communication do you expect is reasonable?

Tom

 

Now that's the way to make a point without annoyance!

P.H.

 

It seems to me that in general there is a very high expectation about the immediacy of communication. The general public (by which I mean most people not "inside" whatever the project or situation being discussed) expect to be updated on a rolling news basis. The speed of modern communication drives people to expect that updates will be in realtime. If the digger breaks down at 11.30, they expect to be able to read about it at 11.45 along with a report of the diagnosis of the likely failure reason, who is at fault, and what is being done to fix the problem. I think that 24 hour TV news and other "instant" information services are to blame for this phenomenon.

What to do about it? Either join in with it, and set up twitter feeds etc etc, or grow a thick skin. Heritage railways don't really have the resource to engage in 24 hour news - though they get closer to this than many organisations due to the number of enthusiastic members - and to do so would drain resource and attention from more useful jobs like actually completing the project.

I think that the Bluebell has done a reasonable job of keeping people updated, and as much as it can.

I think Mr Philpot's reporting and musings are interesting in their own way, and provide a counterpoint to the official reports that complements them. I don't think his site has done damage to the appeal, if anything I suspect the reverse.

 

And since when were people reasonable?

The Bluebell may well be providing what it is reasonable for them to provide. However, some people will (and do) want more - hence the popularity of Philpott's site. The only way to combat that would be to provide more information....

The Other Noel

 

:yield:

Anyway, since I'm sure people want news: Mid Sussex District Council have just given another grant of £25k to the railway (bringing their total contribution to the project to £100k). This will be used to build the water tower at EG, which, while traditional looking, will employ rainwater harvesting to take water from the viaduct. Our smaller engines (Ps, Terriers, Baxter) will certainly need to take water at EG, and I'd imagine most crews on Birch Grove will as well, at least in the steam heat season. The tank body, incidentally, was a gift from a generous donor, worth in itself several thousand pounds.

Artist's impression of the new water tower here.

Tom

 

And for those who were getting really impatient, work recommences at the tip (this time at the Northern end).

Courtesy of Mr. Philpot - Latest Bluebell Railway Northern Extension Pictures

 

The trees running down the left hand side I assume are wishful thinking on the artists part!? There does not look from my visits that there would be room for them between the running line, fence and carpark, besides I am hoping to watch the trains arrive from Sainsburys carpark!

 

Ashley, I think if we are being pedantic, Archie might be wishful thinking too :smile:

Seriously, the painting was done 3 or 4 years ago, before even EG station had been built, so necessarily was a bit speculative. I haven't seen an architect's drawing, or even if a planning app has gone in, though judging by the tank - which does exist - I'm sure it will look pretty much like the drawing. The trees probably are artistic license!

Tom

 

Yes indeed, and a shame about Archie too. Had twenty mins on Hill Place Bridge today on the way back from seeing 44932 at Nutfield, watching them leveling the track bed. Looking more and more like a cutting every time I go, exciting stuff.

 

Just found this video of 1638 running around at Kingscote, over the newly renewed pointwork.

KIngscote run round - YouTube

Taken from an unusual angle!

 

As an East Grinstead resident I'm able to go down and check the work out at my leisure without relying on web updates although Mr Philpot often saves me the trouble.

What frustrates me about the whole project is probably the same things that Mr Philpot comments on. The railway seem to make it up as they go along, and the contractors seem more than happy to do whatever they are paid to do. It always seemed obvious to me that the most sensible thing to do with the whole tip was to climb over the top of it like the ELR had to do when they lost their level crossing over the Manchester Metrolink. I assumed the reasons they didn't do this were that the bridges at each end precluded any extra gradient and also that the spoil would not be stable enough to support the heavy trains that will be using the extension. But that is exactly what they are now doing!

I watched with interest as they took out all the inert spoil from South of Imberhorne Lane; and later the actual rubbish from the North end via the eye-wateringly expensive WBR project. And now they are putting much of it back! I presume this final push to get something flattish between the two ends is more to pacify their generous benefactors than anything; but if it gets rails through to Network Rail it will hopefully spur more donations to get the thing finished properly.

I as much as anyone want to see EG connected up to the railway; I just wish they had involved some professionals on the project sooner; they would have been there years ago!

 

Duplicate post!

 

That's an interesting post. The only conclusion that I can draw is that it is obviously written by someone who has no knowledge whatsoever of the subject that he or she is pontificating about.
"The railway seems to make it up as they go along ......" On what basis to you make this claim?
"....and the contractors seem more than happy to do whatever they are paid to do." If they didn't, any Project Manager worth his salt would be down on them like a ton of bricks.
"It always seemed obvious to me that the most sensible thing to do was to climb over the top like the ELR...." Err, OK. That would probably limit a lot of Bluebell motive power to a couple of coaches. Gradients are one of the biggest problems affecting railway operations and any sensible civil engineer would look to achieving the shallowest gradient he could reasonably engineer.
".....eye-wateringly expensive WBR project...." If you had a viable and cheaper alternative, why didn't you shout it from the hillsides?
"....I wish they had employedsome professionals sooner......" I never realised that this project had previously been run by amateurs. When did the professionals take over?

I've no connection with this project or the Bluebell but I do enjoy reading some of the drivel posted on here from time to time. Thank goodness there are a lot of sensible posts to provide factual information, as well.

 

OK I'll take your replies one at a time;

1. just an observation based on 14 years of looking at what they've been doing with my own eyes; watching the Beeching Way spoil being extracted by rail southwards; and now being replaced with capping from the tip,

taking out the extreme eastern side of the cutting only to find that the way through via the former cutting was blocked by solid rock and then refilling that excavation with more spoil

2. OK the ELR example was pretty extreme and I never suggested such a gradient but it was also dictated by an overbridge. At no point in the original plan was the extraction planned other than to take the whole cutting down to original trackbed level (until the recent re-profiling)

3. If you think WBR was money well spent given that the waste is now being replaced by more of the same (but less compacted) so be it.

4. I wasn't aware that they had

out of interest was a proper survey of the amount of waste in the tip to be removed ever done?

 

I've said it before and i'll say it again; everything is done for a reason and, ulness you have knowledge of that reason, you cannot really comment, other to ask why it has been done that way.
I didn't say that WBR was money well spent. I have no knowledge of the alternatives and why that method was chosen. What I did say was that, if you had a better method, why didn't you say so.
I do have some experience of waste management and that experience tells me that things can change, often with changes in people, policies and even opinions within the enforcing authorities. Rightly or wrongly, what was not acceptable yesterday may well be acceptable today. And vice versa. Not saying that this is the case, though. Decisions can also be affected by what is discovered when the waste is excavated. It is probable that no accurate records of the tip and its contents existed so initial decisions may well have had to err on the pessimistic and safe side. I've no knowledge of the reasons and decisions arrived at by those involved. I do know that the Environment Agency would not entertain unqualified and inexperienced people to manage the excavation, though.

 

Steve; I agree with a lot of what you say.

I think what's become apparent since they started the excavation is that it's just inert rubbish; and moving it from one place to another doesn't seem to be causing a big problem. Paying stupid amounts of tax to take it elsewhere doesn't make sense in my opinion if there are alternatives. I just hope that once it's all moved out of the way they can get a stable trackbed through it. And it doesn't look like too long before that will happen!

 

They tried removal by road - WBR was cheaper.

I believe I'm right in saying that this is correct in this case. I'm also sure that the Bluebell folk and their consultants know what they're doing. I for one am content to see how it all works out - at last the end is in sight!

Steve B

 

Hold on, does my memory betray me now?

If I remember correctly the facts were as follows: The heaps of clay and waste were up to bridge level, so some of it had to be removed anyway. The original assumption was that there was an intact cutting. The actual condition of the waste was unknown until digging commenced. Then two things happened: a) It was discovered that there was no intact cutting but that the western side had been dug out to access the cutting. b) The waste was in much better condition than expected. Discovery a) made the full excavation more difficult than anticipated. Discovery b) made leaving some waste in situ a feasible option. This is how the Bluebell decided to create a narrower and shallower cutting than the original leading to a heavier gradient than originally, but still within acceptable limits, and leaving a proportion of the waste in the cutting. As some of the waste was and apparently still is in the way with waste having been removed where it could have stayed, a redistribution of all the material now takes place.

All the above is information derived from this thread, the Bluebell website and Mr. Philpot's photos. Is that correct?

 

CHristoph I think you're spot on. You never know what you're going to find until you start digging.