Bluebell Northern Extension - so what's occurring then?

We'll hire in. When we took the initial spoil south in about 2005, we used our own wagons, but (even with the hire of one extra wagon from Isfield) we were limited to about 200 tons per trip. Add in the fact that each wagon was a bit different (some bogie, some 4 wheeled) and the fact that we had to have a brake van, so needed to perform a run round in Kingscote on every trip, and it meant that loading / unloading wasn't very efficient. Even working hard, the most we did I think was 2 trips per day - 400 tons. Whereas, once we have a through connection, we will be able to hire in a loco and suitable wagons from outside and will probably be able to shift 1000 tons per trip, and maybe multiple trips per day. So we'll be able to clear the remaining clay much more efficiently.

As for what moves south, yes it will only be inert clay capping.

Tom

 

Cheers, thanks Tom.

 

Three updates on the project from the last week or so:

First, concerning the profiling work etc at the cutting, the following is from Chris White:

A bit about the installation of signalling, particularly the colour light Kingscote down home:

Please don't ask me what that final line means in practice! There are photos to illustrate at Bluebell Railway - East Grinstead Extension Progress.

Finally, UK Railtours has announced a provisional date for the first through Victoria to Bluebell service, on 28 March 2013. This will be diseasel-hauled using a GBRf class 66, which will be named in a ceremony at HK once it arrives. All subject of course to the weather, no unforeseen snags, volunteer resources and the need to continue raising the necessary capital to finish on time of course, but as Chris White notes, there is still plenty of confidence that we are still on track for a spring 2013 opening.

Tom

 

A similar situation to Swanage's first through trains and a perfectly sensible way of maximising the "First through train" bonus factor - do it with a diesel as the very first train and follow it up with the first hrough steam train a bit later on. If the steam ran first, the 66-hauled train would be less likely to sell out. It's going to ba an interesting six months as the final preparations are made. This dry settled weather must be very welcome after the deluges on the previous 5 months.

 

I think also, given the help GBRf had given in the extension project, there was a desire to reward them in some way - giving them the first through train seems a sensible and practical gesture.

Tom

 

So the diesel freaks at the BB have finally won! No longer the only entirely steam railway in the UK.

Am I to believe that GBRf weren't paid for their efforts in removing the spoil? If so why are they given the honours and not the group who own 'Clan Line' or any of the other steam loco owners?

 

Well, to be fair, there have been diesels at both ends of the Bluebell (SP - Imberhorne south and EG - Imberhorne north) for about the last 5 or 6 years - 08s, 73s, 66s and the Hastings Unit; and the 08 and 73 have both run passenger and infrastructure trains - so if the diesel freaks have "finally won", then they did so several years ago. This isn't anything new. It isn't even news - it was announced at the AGM about 4 months ago...

Don't know where you get that idea from. GBRf did it as a commercial job AFAIK, but proved very accommodating at fitting in their trains to a schedule that matched the ability of the Bluebell to raise the necessary funds.

I think you are looking for sensation where none exists. You're not related to David Wilcocks by any chance, are you? :smile:

Tom

 

I do agree with David on this, it's a crying shame that the very first through train to us will be hauled by a poxy Class 66 diesel rather than by steam power. Surely the tour could have at the very least been top & tailed with steam/diesel, however as Tom has stated the Bluebell's "steam only" policy went up in smoke years ago when the very first 08 shunter arrived so this is something sadly we've just got to get used to. Don't forget there is still that ugly rumour going about a bl$$dy Thumper unit is going to be visiting us for our Sussex Branch Line Gala in October.

 

Couldn't agree more. Atleast theres no infernal-combustions on passenger trains. That to me is one of the biggest selling points of the Bluebell.....

 

"poxy 66" "crying shame" "sadly" "ugly rumour" "bl$$dy" - after 1000s of volunteer hours,millions of pounds raised and support from across the rail industry, sometimes this steam/diesel thing has to be put to one side. After steam trains have been running into EG most will have forgotten about this diesel train and most of those not involved at the sharp end will have forgotten about the sacrifices made. Oh no one seems very bothered about electric trains at EG though or maybe someone should get upset about that as well.

 

Actually David with all due respect, I can see both points of view as an outsider, Both yourself and Tom have valid points.

Surely a lot of this must be down to costs? I recall that when the Bluebell borrowed the Ivatt from the MHR for the spoil trains, this was costing the Bluebell a lot of money so they hired the 08 from Peak Rail at a fraction of that coast. I recall that uproar from the purists saying this should not be so until someone asked the pertinent question of whether members were prepared to dip into their pockets to fork out the difference in the daily hire to keep the Bluebell all steam, at that point the thread went dead so I rest my case on that one.

The rest of the diesally things I will not comment on David save the the class 66 next year. I think that the Swanage did the same thing a few years ago and that was a success and I am sure the Bluebells will be too. For heavens sake it is only an opening ceremony,not written in tablets of stone for all time.

Rant over

Best regards
Chris:

 

Just a small correction here Chris (in general I agree with your point).

No-one said anything about this incoming trip being an opening ceremony - it's the first incoming through charter. Unless I have completely lost the plot, the opening ceremony will be earlier, and will be 100% steam. Afterall, we wouldn't hold an opening ceremony on a Thursday, would we?

To David - if you don't like the class 66, don't come that day. But you have to at least offer some congratulations to the Directors - Chris White and Roger Kelly in particular - who between them have raised the necessary money (give or take the last few hundred thousdand) and have seen the total cost for the project probably fall by over £1million from the initial estimates when the first digging took place. If the cost of that success is that the opening through train is a class 66, and we had to hire an 08 and then a class 73 for shifting spoil from Imberhorne south to HK a few years ago, then I for one am happy with that compromise. On other threads, people are very critical about the (steam) motive power situation at the Bluebell, with constant calls on the one hand to "steam engine X" or "steam engine Y"; and on the other hand, "why are we thrashing 100 year old machinery on heavy trains?" How much worse would that situation have been had we, for example, employed the C class every day hauling 200 ton spoil trains south for months on end? And how much further away from opening to EG would we be had we paid more money on the steam fleet and therefore less on digging out the waste?

Ultiimately, financially it's a zero sum game: those not happy to see diesels working works trains have to answer how we provide the necessary steam power at perhaps 3 or 4 times the cost. And if GBRf have been very helpful in meeting the slightly erratic requirements of an organisation that is, after all, largely volunteer based and dependent on an uncertain funding stream, then what is wrong if they get the honour of running the first through train and having a 66 named, presumably, with some kind of Bluebell connotation?

Even Sharpthorne was modern motive power once!

Tom

 

Whilst I too aren't over the moon about the first through train being diesel hauled, I understand everything that Tom has said and we'll still get the steam specials through (presumably not long after) and the first train into East Grinstead will be (I hope) be steam hauled.

Although about the 08. Is there a reason its still on loan to the line? Its not needed to do the spoil trains anymore and the C&W department have that Sentinel they bought a few years back (although it supposedly has less HP then the 08).

 

Ok so it's a diesel and not even a British one at that. As has been said many times already, Swanage's first tour was class 66 hauled and it was packed. It's subsequent first steam tour was again packed. Two train loads of happy punters. Had the first one been steam then would the second railtour been as successful?

Also to have a loco named in someway after the Bluebell can only be of benefit. Remember there are people who actually like class 66's (I know, it's hard to believe) and they travel all over the country to spot them. Having one named after the line is like having a popular mobile advertisement travelling all over the country.

It is only the first railtour and many more will follow. There may be some more diesel tours but I strongly predict that these will be far outweighed by steam.

 

I was not one of those members who opposed the use of the 08 for spoil trains as it seemed to be the right approach. Nor did I oppose the use of spoil trains, again it was the right thing to do. I did wonder if it would prove to be the 'thin-end-of-wedge' notwithstanding the Chairman's spin that we should think of the 08 as just a piece of plant. And so it proved with the dmu making an appearance shortly afterwards; now the 66. The BB can no longer claim to be the only all-steam railway in the country.

I'm no longer a Bluebell member having had my enthusiasm steadily eroded by years by unpleasantness by volunteer members, unpleasantness which culminated in 'Jamessquared''s rant against photographers in this thread earlier this year. I cancelled my direct debit.

I wish the BB well, but I do think that expectations that there will be a lot of income from this connection to the national network are loaded on the high side. Most excursions, steam or diesel, are no longer directed at the enthusiast market but at affluent day trippers who are unlikely to want to visit a preserved railway. I feel that the major gain from this connection will be that it will be possible to hire in a tamping machine to help the PW volunteers in their never ending quest to keep the track on order with an absolute minimum of tools. They even had to buy their own Kangols!

Regards

 

Just to set the record straight, the David i was referring to was the other one and not your good self.

Your comments are noted.

regards
Chris:

 

Well yes, my Dad and I certainly won't be at our railway the day that Class 66 arrives with the railway tour Totally accept your points re:the hiring in of the 08 and 73 to shift the spoil, many of us didn't like it but ultimately it did the job on a cheaper basis than 41312 would have and accepted the reason for it. Although as has been pointed out, the management originally told us it was only just "a piece of plant" and "would be well hidden away from public view", which of course didn't quite work out that way. In terms of the Directors there's no criticism aimed at them, they've done a fine job to get us to E.G. and yes before anyone suggests it, both us photters have donated money towards the extension appeal. To be honest Tom, I'm just very anti-diesel on the Bluebell because I've seen what an absolute PR disaster they've been on other preserved railways where the public have outright refused to ride in them because the service is not steam powered and I'd hate to see that happen on our railway.

Cheers

 

Reading Railway Magazine today I see the BB are also putting a coloured light signal at Kingscote should fit in very well with a diesel loco.

 

Considering the Southern started using colour light signals in the 1930s, it'll fit in quite well with most of the Bluebell steam fleet. And don't forget, the LBSCR started using 6.6kV AC overhead wires before WW1. Now there's a thought, electrify the Bluebell...!

It's only the first train. There'll be many more, and steam hauled too. Let the Bluebell get the first one out of the way, and get used to operating through trains of 10 coaches, without having the additional complication of a steam loco to service.

 

Discussed a bit up thread. It is the down home, but won't be visible from KC station area.

Of course, the Southern had colour lights in the 1920s - so will look just right with B473 and the Maunsell set ... :smile:

Tom