Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Just a reminder that this weekend (August 10/11) is the Vintage Transport Weekend. Normal service 2 timetable, but with displays of traction engines and other vintage vehicles in the field at Horsted Keynes. Locos and rolling stock are mostly Edwardian or Victorian:

09:45 / 12:15 / 14:45 / 17:15 ex SP both days: H class 263 + P class 323 + Mets + 4 wheelers + LNWR Obo (17:15 service is Sat Only)
11:00 / 13:30 / 16:00 ex SP both days: C class 592 + P class 178 + Maunsells + LBSCR Bogie first + SECR 100 seater + SECR Birdcage brake

East Grinstead departure times are one hour after the SP departures.

(The 9F will be doing Golden Arrow duty on Sunday lunchtime). I believe that one of Baxter or Stepney will also be running, possibly doing Ardingly shuttles, but haven't seen the STN yet to confirm.

Details here: http://www.bluebell-railway.com/event/vintage-transport/

Tom

 

Went to Bluebell Vintage Transport Weekend today on the basis that this was one occasion when I would be free from that distinctly "past its best" Mk. 1 set that always seems to be running when I go there! An additional bonus was a guided tour of the C&W workshops by a knowledgeable and truly articulate guide. Since my last visit, shortly after re-opening to East Grinstead, Sheffield Park has been taken in hand and is vastly smarter. It also has a booking clerk with first class "people skills".

So I stumped up 1st class to gain access to a couple of L.B.S.C.R. vehicles not otherwise accessible. How did the various vehicles compare?

L.B.S.C.R. four wheeled first class. Sumptuous interior complete with cromets. Not a bad ride quality for a four wheeler.

L.B.S.C.R bogie first. Apart from ceilings, not dissimilar to the four wheeler. Better ride of course.

Chesham set composite. The disappointment of the day. Seating not particularly wonderful and ride distinctly lumpy.

Observation car. Quite austere interior but seating comfortable enough and riding good.

S.R. Maunsell open third (Full width frameless droplights, continental style). I have travelled in this vehicle before so previous impressions were merely confirmed. Seating in this vehicle was at least as comfortable as the best first class sampled on the day whilst the ride was far better. A vehicle which ought to make present day TOC's ashamed by what they offer.

The moral of all this is if you go on a day when the open third is in service just go third class and travel in it!

(Incidentally we had to stop for a couple of trackside fires to be extinguished. I overheard someone moaning about this!Where do such people come from?)

Paul H

 

Glad you enjoyed your day, I was one of the loco crew who was putting out the fire; the round of applause from the passengers in the OBO was most appreciated!

I believe the OBO is coming in for some much needed maintenance this year.

 

Alas there were some of a very different mentality further up the train! I think this was as bad a fire as I have seen on a heritage railway as the wind was blowing it rapidly towards the trees. Another couple of minutes later on the scene and it could have been very serious.

Paul H.

 

The wind direction did give us cause for concern hence our actions.

 

Tom: Just out of interest have the passenger figures ex-EG continued to hold up well through the summer hols, and has there been any indication of people making the journey from EG to SP to continue on to the SP Gardens, as we discussed earlier in the year on here?

Just curious, in that it takes the extended Bluebell into "somewhere to somewhere" territory, both ways, ie northbound a day in EG, southbound the gardens?

46118

 

Passenger numbers and revenue both holding up as far as I can see, both anecdotally and from some year-to-date financials that have been circulated. Certainly we are still needing two six-coach equivalent trains in daily service. As for SP Gardens, it does look like we have plenty of visitors starting at EG (or points north) who visit them for the day.

There's also quite a lot of marketing activity in connection with East Grinstead. For example, we currently have a promotion that gets you a discount at a number of High Street shops and Restaurants in EG if you have an all-line ticket. (http://www.bluebell-railway.com/event/august-shopping-specials/)

Tom

 

Thanks Tom. Good news.
Last time I saw some figures the Severn Valley was ahead on budget, despite the "snowed up" Spring gala that only had about half the budgeted visitors.

One negative is the increased cost of coal this year compared to 2012.

46118

 

OK, Steam Railway have the figures I'd seen, so I guess they are public domain now. Fare income January - July is £1.27million, as against £787,000 last year - an increase of nearly £500k. There is also an increase in advance sales which I don't think are included in those numbers. A closer look at the figures shows that it isn't only the new sales at EG that constitute the increase; there has also been an increase of ticket sales at SP and HK as well over last year. The one slight caveat is that 2012 was a quiet year.

Tom

 

Thanks.

Judged against a quiet 2012 maybe, but still impressive.

46118

 

Tom: There is an image on the main website of one side of the cutting at Imberhorne looking very green now. Was it seeded, or just given a layer of topsoil which happened to contain grass seeds anyway?
Will the steeper side be treated with a growing medium/seed eventually?

46118

 

Just nature taking its course - it hasn't, to my knowledge, been seeded, nor had any topsoil added. The side that is greening over (the eastern side) is the natural rock for the bottom 2/3s, and that is the bit that is developing greenery. The black sheeting only covers the top 1/3 or so.

On the steeper western side, if you look closely when you run through you can already see small shrubs breaking through the plastic sheeting after only a few months, which is the intention. So I think it is just a case of letting nature take its course. I'd have thought the situation will steadily improve over the following seasons, but it might take a few years before you are no longer able to see any black sheeting on a cursory view.

Tom

 

Got my first photos and video shots of L.150 last Monday and Tuesday, if anyone is interested they are here!



http://www.flickr.com/photos/alts1985/sets/72157632784810904/

 

Why is there black sheeting by the way?

 

They hold the layers of compacted rubbish back where the tip was only partially cleared, and stop water getting in (which might cause it to degrade to a mush - technical term). In time, the sheeting will biodegrade and allow vegetation to grow up through, which will both cause the cutting sides to appear green and also, by the action of the plant roots, stabilise the cutting sides.

Tom

 

Very nice views. Shows that something the size of a 45xx will do the job (Hint hint!)

PH

 

No it won't! It's limited to 185 tons, which is five Mark 1s. Our platforms take six, and in due course will take seven, and at least at the moment, we need that seating capacity... (And there was a discussion on the Bluebell motive power thread a few months back which effectively concluded that it was actually having to work much harder today pulling 185 tons on the Bluebell than the BR limit of 310 tons on the Severn Valley Railway for a 45xx, on account of the steeper gradients).

It's a capable loco - but not that capable!

Tom

 

Thanks, I wondered why I hadn't seen those things being there in the long term.

 

Tom: So is the rake shown in the video above, ie 3 Southern and 4 Mets, within that load limit? Looked to be handling them quite well. Would this seven coach rake be lighter in total than the six Mk1's in the other rake?

(I was going to ask which rake carries the most pax, but thats getting complicated! )

Edit: Sort of answering my own implied question, the Mets are presumably your best bet for number of passenger carried for lowest train weight, compared to the Mk1's which presumably are the heaviest per given passenger number?

46118

 

I built myself a spreadsheet for answering those questions! But a key thing to remember is that the Mets are only 80 tons for 250-odd passengers - not much more than the weight of two mark 1s, but more than twice the seating capacity. That seven coach rake is way, way lighter than 6 Mark 1s.

3 Maunsells + 4 Mets (not a common formation, but I assume dictated by maintenance schedules on the four wheelers and / or the Southern pre-group bogie coaches: 384 passengers (60 first and 324 third); 176 tons

Amongst the common rakes we run:

3 Maunsells + LBSC 1st + 100 seater + Birdcage: 347 passengers (50 first and 297 3rd); 182 tons
4 Mets + LBSC 4 wheel 1st + LCDR brake 3rd + LCDR wheelchair saloon: 306 passengers (72 first, 230 third, 4 wheelchairs); 110 tons
Add in the LNWR Obo to that rake and you get 378 passengers for 138 tons

But a typical Mark 1 / Bulleid set - the one running last week:

347 seats (335 second / third and 12 wheelchairs) for 213 tons, which is well beyond the capabilities of L150.

Putting a 1st in the formation would reduce that seating capacity while still leaving the same weight. And that particular rake has two Bulleids in it: if they were replaced with equivalent Mark 1s, you'd add another 10 tons. Mark 1s, which are all steel, are really very heavy coaches, especially as most of ours seem to have commonwealth bogies - ours are typically 37 tons, against 32 tons for a Bulleid or Maunsell, and typically 25 - 30 tons for a pre-grouping bogie coach.

Where Paul Hitch definitely has a well argued point is the considerably greater seats per ton for vintage carriages, which helps make the case for smaller locos -- though that has to be set against the greater maintenance requirements which means ours will only do six weeks before needing attention to brakes, running gear etc, whereas a Mark 1 / Bulleid will do twelve weeks. Which is why we always have to have at least one Bulleid / Mark 1 set running on any two-train day, give or take the odd gala. There isn't the regular maintenance capacity to run only vintage sets on both service sets.

Tom