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Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Jamessquared, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I quite agree - which is why I took the view that stepping across that threshold was the wrong thing to do. Now it’s been crossed, diesels need to be embraced as part of the overall fleet, not parked to the side and wished away. Fortunately, the piece in Bluebell Times suggests a positive approach.


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  2. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it, it’s only been there a couple of weeks longer than anticipated, and it sounds like it’s leaving next week.
     
  3. Cuckoo Line

    Cuckoo Line Member

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    I guess times and circumstances change (covid, fire risk, coal orices etc) and the diesels and DEMUs talked about are from the same era as the mk 1coaching stock in normal use. It does seem that people can find it interesting to ride behind steam one way and diesel hauled the other based on experiences of heritage railways that have done this in the past when we,ve visited.
     
  4. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Those same diesels and DEMU'S are now part of history, and to many are what they remember as children, Same as the older generation remember steam, so to them they are historic, with the changing reality, rising cost's etc, there will either have to be less services or more use of heritage diesels, possibly both, perhaps running an DEMU on early, and late season services might be an option, would a two, or 3 car unit have enough capacity?
    I have often wondered why the MHR, didn't make more use of their thumper, in such a way. next year, i suspect there will be more use of the class 20's, with steam only running in the peak of the season,
     
  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    It doesn’t meet the “do less but better” test to me, I’m afraid.

    Tom
     
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  6. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    What do you mean? It was in use most weeks until it had to be stopped for overhaul. It was possibly one of the most used Thumper units? Sadly the body has all the same issues any MK1 coach, only with more door pillars. The need to prioritise the repair of the rest of the fleet hasn't yet left any room for it to get all the attention it needs
     
  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    They do, and I started liking diesel before developing interest in steam.

    My objections to dieselisation were all about loss of an all steam railway, and the operational reality that imposed. As an armchair member, my voice was rightly small in that discussion.


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  8. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sorry Tom, but diesels in general, or DEMUs in particular? If the latter, are you perhaps unconsciously adding the sort of issues the folks at C&W routinely deal with on hauled stock to the loco dept's list (if you catch my drift)?
     
  9. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    Currently the subject of discussion on the Hornby Railway Collectors Association forum - there was a K's Kit which used a H-D chassis.
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Both, but particularly the DEMU - all those doors and locks, when we know that is an area that already causes a backlog in the c&w repairs. My concern is that you just add to the ongoing maintenance overhead. It's one thing finding a group willing to restore a piece of rollings stock, much harder keeping it running thereafter. So I have a particular worry that acquiring that unit will further sideline vehicles like the other 100 seater that are basically sound but sidelined for want of overhaul capacity.

    The other issue is resilience - I can understand having a diesel as a thunderbird, since it can be started quickly if a steam loco fails. But if you start scheduling services to be diesel hauled - or DEMU hauled - then you have no resilience. So pretty quickly, I think the pressure will be on to acquire another one.

    Then finally - we don't have enough space under cover. So where will it live? I don't believe that it should take any of the existing storage, since the fundraising for those buildings was very closely identified as locomotive and / or wooden carriage storage.

    Ultimately, my concern is about opportunity cost: we can't keep doing new things, even if they are worthy. You have to learn when to do the existing things better rather than keep taking on new ones.

    I fully appreciate that there are other views, and with some people the move seems popular. I just don't agree that it is needed.

    Tom
     
  11. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    Tom. The running and maintenance agreement are, for very obvious reason confidential. If I were in Rowan's shoes. I would stipulate that the owning group are responsible for the maintenance and upkeep, using the railways facilities, when available. The SVR do offer door fitness to run exam training, although we dont have any southern region single acting locks in use.

    I would imagine the doors are fibreglass. A massive pain the arse. Then there is crew training. That doesnt happen overnight. If it is/were to be used as an emergency set, first train/ last train of the day operation.

    I quite like the idea. Not in blue though as everything diesel based at the moment is bloody BR blue. As you say Tom the storage of the 2 coaches while they are being worked on is a concern as you rightly state the OP works were specifically targeted at the wooden bodied vehicles and loco storage.
     
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  12. Cuckoo Line

    Cuckoo Line Member

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    Definitely needs to be green, that's how I remember them on the CuCkoo line !
     
  13. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Didn't like owt after plain blue, small warning panels. Just as with other resolutely suburban 3+2 stock, such as the 2/4EPB, 2HAP etc. frankly I/C blue/grey was just taking the pi mickey. Whilst NSE might have did begin reversing decades of retrenchment, I can't say I thought their livery choice was ever the best!

    Intrigued by Tom's comment re: Thumpers, in that the same thing he points to as seriously resource hungry (door lach mechanisms) are just as evident on older compartment stock, though I suppose those are less complex assemblies. Slight steam bias detected in the logic! Perhaps when the B4's turn in the workshops comes around, an additional braking circuit, BR(S) EP stock (for the recovery of)? ;)
     
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  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I don't dispute that the vintage compartment stock is equally resource heavy in that regard. My argument isn't about worthiness: I fully accept that preserving a thumper is a valid preservation objective. Rather, my argument is about resources, or rather their limit within a single organisation. I don't believe we are big enough to preserve everything of value; so we have to prioritise, and in that regard, I believe the older items already saved but stored should have a higher priority - particularly for covered storage space, which is precious and distinctly limited.

    Tom
     
  15. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    The "I/ it was here first" argument. This then raises the other comment "we cant save everything".

    As Tom says, its resources. Have the group got the financials to go down the contract route for doors/ door locks, finishing the unit to a standard that the Bluebell require before it enters service thus relieving the Bluebell of the overhaul time. To me the Bluebell is almost the epitome of how heritage railways should present their railway. Showing different eras across each station, showing the developments in style. That then extends to the rolling stock that passengers experience. IMO a thumper does represent a period of Southern region traction but not on the Bluebell. Swanage/ Midhants, yes because the type of rolling stock used on those particular lines pre preservation would be represented by the unit.
     
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  16. burmister

    burmister Member

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    Yes DEMUs have a lot of locks and doors but overhaul without taking skilled labour away from current work is not insurmountable with some lateral thinking. Not so long ago Railpart were offering dozens of brand new VEP and DEMU door locks and latches for minimal money and although I bought quite a few they had many more left. Similarly the doors on a 207 are glass fibre skinned but steel framed and yes many of these will have rotted from the inside causing large bubbles in the door skins and around the hinges. I had ours repaired with new stainless Cromweld metal and the skins reglassed at a super yacht marine yard. We were worried about the hinges and rehanging but to my surprise and relief no adjustments were needed they just needed rehanging in the same door locations as they came from such was the skill of the yard. Ditto new upholstery we went to an ex Eastleigh trimmer, a coach was about £5k labour for all seats. Regarding 73s it depends on the engine condition the ones well worn will naturally not pull as fast uphill but new injector nozzles and clean turbo helps a lot. Ours accelerates from a standing start to a balancing speed of 22mph with load five up the 1 in 88. Your biggest headache in my view will be spares. Anyway an interesting development for the Bluebell.
     
  17. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

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    I'm unconvinced regarding the argument for DMU/DEMU on the Bluebell- seems like an unnecessary maintenance and storage burden for a train that is of limited appeal to most customers outside of the enthusiast world......yes, I have said it.

    The Bluebell has a unique collection of stock and locomotives in its own right- and as Tom says, needs to keep doing what it does well, and do that even better where possible!

    I can 100% see the argument for having a couple of diesel locos suitable for normal services on site for operational resilience/failures/fire risk/pway/convienience......

    However, if that is the motivation then getting another 33 is surely the answer (assuming another can be found), enabling a spares pool to be established for both locos, and making crew training/competencies easier to maintain, and ensuring a level of redundancy for maintenence/breakdowns- especially if the plan is *not* to use them for regular services.

    Chris
     
  18. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    Also the Bluebell have previously rejected the idea of having a 73, stating they were not powerful enough to run the normal 6 coach sets. That’s why they ended up with a 33.
    So not sure has changed now they are considering one?
     
  19. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Reading between the lines, I suspect opportunity as preservationists at Bicester are needing to find a new home.
     
  20. D7076

    D7076 Well-Known Member

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    But the Bicester 73 has been sold and now based in South Wales,so isn’t looking for a new home .
     

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