Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Conditions, conditions......

 

I'll happily do it in any weather, but if the track is that nasty slippy moist dirty rail conditions I won't guarantee to keep time.

 

... which is sort of the point, isn't it? Surely load limits are chosen for what is achievable under all but the most extreme conditions, not to feed the machismo tendencies of loco crew! (No offence intended )

Tom

 

From what has already been advertised the festival isn't really an enthusiasts event, great that 60163 is visiting but will there be a gala weekend during the event?...the war events generally run a 2 train service, the same as most other weekends and the Edwardian weekend is probably the closest event to a gala at the time of writing. I personally think with potentially; 3, 55, 178, 323, 263, 592, 847, 1638, L.150, either 5643 or 45231 or even both if their respective visits lay over, operational at the same time the Bluebell have missed out on an opportunity here!! Plus maybe B473 if the repairs are completed in time!

 

The sort of conditions I had in mind probably occur for only a couple of weeks each Autumn. I wouldn't set a load limit based on that alone myself. I think in fact we are saying the same thing though, since I am describing an extreme. The original point (rather lost as usual) was whether the T9 would manage 5 mk1s over the Bluebell. I would have thought it would, with comparative ease, but not necessarily with a big reserve. So I think what I am describing is a load limit set at the sort of level you (Tom) are suggesting, i.e. a load which the engine can cope with in all but the extreme case, that is within its capability. Now whether (on conservation grounds) you choose to have a bigger safety margin or not is down to the owner. Different owners / operators will have very different views.

 

Indeed she did and here is my video of her tackling Medstead bank for the first time since she was a resident on the line in the 1980's:

 

The loco roster has the DMU down to run the 9.45 over the feb half term http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/loco_roster.html

 

The NYMR has used 1 360 Excavator most days to uplift the old rails and sleepers, load nearly all of it to wagons ready for disposal and relay the new sleepers and rails previously laid out.
Sleepers lifted either in 2s or 4s dependant on fitting.
The only other machine in use was a Tracked Dozer with 4 in 1 bucket or Drott this was used on approx 3 days to scarify and level the trackbed after sleepers were removed.
Actual length of renewal is nearly a mile and a quarter and only 2 access points, one at each end. But useless for getting machines in, these had to be brought in by train.
At the same time we also have a 15 length relay going on nearer to Pickering due to the Environment agency work at Hunting Bridge.

 

I wonder if the real reason for not having a gala, is that the railway would have to run earlier services that the current Service 2 timetable of 10:45am from East Grinstead.A first train departing East Grinstead between 9.00am and 10.00am ( and nearer 9.00am) would be required from East Grinstead.

 

I guess I was thinking of a year-round limit, i.e. if it were part of the permanent fleet. (We don't, for example, have different load limits for summer and autumn - the limit set is what can reasonably be hauled at any time of year, at any state of boiler washout, with possibly poor coal etc etc). A short-period loan in, say, mid-summer might elicit a different calculation from a loan for say an Autumn gala.

The issue about conservation grounds affecting load is also worth considering: interesting that (to take an example) I seem to recall the suggested loadings for Flying Scotsman after restoration are rather lighter than had previously been used in preservation or, presumably, in original service. These are precious things, after all! Likewise, looking at the loadings the T9s took on the steeply-grade North Cornwall line in the 1950s is maybe not a good guide to what would be sensible now.

Finally, as you say, the owner must have a view! I guess owner and railway would have a conversation about limits: it is the owner's prerogative to withdraw the offer of a loan if they consider the host railway wants to work the loco too hard. It is the host railway's prerogative to withdraw the offer of a hire period if they feel that the suggested load would be too small to be remunerative!

I would like to see the T9 though...

Tom

 

I do find the call for more galas drily amusing!

Given 92212, 45231, L150 and (soon) 5643 all having been on long-term loan to the railway recently, we haven't done too badly for visiting motive power over the last couple of years. OK, that has mostly been unfortunate circumstances that has meant that situation has been more necessity than choice, but even so...

A Black 5 was (supposedly) one of the most requested locos to visit the line. If we had had one for, say, one week during the autumn, people would have drooled, no doubt photo charters would have been organised and enthusiasts would have paid a premium fare to ride behind it. Yet we will have had one for the best part of five months that you could ride behind for standard prices, yet no-one seems that fussed! I certainly haven't seen many photo charters emerging - maybe I missed them? I fail to see how having a loco for a week is somehow preferable to having the same loco for five months, unless familiarity breeds contempt!

So if it is not the locos that are the attraction, maybe it is service frequency? Well, we have four available paths, and on any given weekend, three of them are in use, at least during the middle of the day. So if you want to see lots of movement, there is lots to see if you plonk yourself at HK or Kingscote or on Freshfield Bank any weekend and just watch the trains go by. Four paths is the maximum capacity of the line and we run three pretty much every Saturday and Sunday - we are never going to have WSR-style mega galas, simply because the line capacity won't allow it. I can't see the point of hiring lots of locos, just to have most of them just do one trip because there are more available locos than paths.

OK, maybe I am being bit facetious. But really - give or take maybe an earlier train and maybe one extra train to fill the last vacant path, it is hard to see how much extra intensity we would run. I wonder why people want, say, a Black 5 as a star at a gala when they could just come and ride behind it most weekends!

Anyway, off soapbox. I guess I get my kicks from quietly running an efficient service without fuss, rather than pushing the boat out. Good job I'm not the gala organiser!

Tom

 

Tom,

You seem to be the voice for the BB management on this forum. Granted the BB has had a few visiting locos in recent times. But the idea of a gala is a show day for the railway and to say thanks to all the members and volunteers for their hard work. You can't call a special event day a gala it just isn't. Gala's have always been part of preserved railways and always will be. Why have the BB management gone away from galas? A well put together gala will make a profit for the BB. A few selected visiting loco and the home fleet will bring in the crowds. Which must be good for the BB.

 

Certainly not true, all comments are my own unless I explicitly say otherwise.

As I say, it's my opinion, not the official view - I don't know what the thinking is behind the number of events put on. Though I did note a month or so ago when the list was put up just how many dining trains there are - over 100, as I recall, mostly Pullman's, i.e. at the premium end of the market. Speculation time, but I have a suspicion that the financial view is that dining trains that can be organised from the railway's own resources make more money than a gala that requires resources to be bought in. The probably answers the profit question.

I'd probably dispute that special events (such as the Southern at War or the Edwardian Weekend) aren't galas. Maybe not WSR-style mega galas, but I think very few lines can bring those off successfully, and in any case I wonder at the profit, even for a line like the WSR. We certainly don't have the space to have more than four engines running at any one time (plus maybe a fifth doing brake van rides), so I can't imagine we would ever get more than a single visitor at a time. But ultimately, in my eyes, Galas are a means to attract visitors at times that might otherwise be quiet, or to broaden the market to a clientele who might not otherwise visit. I think broadening the clientele is the thinking behind the events I have mentioned - the main attraction is the "add ons", and the trains help get you around! Again, it's a personal view, but when I visit other railways, increasingly it is the "add-ons" (and the rolling stock) that are the deal maker for me, rather than any specific locomotive or - beyond a certain point - the intensity of the service. So events like the Edwardian Weekend certainly work for me. YMMV, as the young internet-savvy whippersnappers have it...

As to the other bit - that galas are a"thank you" to members and volunteers: it's a fair point I guess, though probably one to address to the management...

And beyond that - I just find it funny that we have had a Black 5 for several months yet everyone wants it to star at a gala when they can ride it any weekend!

Tom

 

Tom, I am with you again. I am not sure that Galas are as profitable as some enthusiasts would like to believe them to be, and other events (War on the Line, Thomas etc) probably do more to broaden the clientele.

Speaking personally most galas are a lot more effort, and no more enjoyable than an ordinary running day.

 

Hi Tom,


Thanks for your reply. I just hope one day the BB does have a change of heart and reinstates the spring and autumn galas. I'm sure it would be well attend and would make a profit.

 

I tend not to see much of Galas - I don't like crowds - but one of the things I like to see are the unusual or rare workings, like goods and mixed trains, perhaps short workings, engine changes at intermediate stations, etc. Visiting engines might be nice, but it's the variety of operations that interest me. The add-on attractions can be a bonus. I went to the WHR's superpower event last September, and the opportunity to get to see behind the scenes at Dinas, and the model exhibitions was an attraction in itself.

Steve B

 

Surely the Bluebell galas could just follow a similar pattern to the MHR galas, which seem to be very popular. Indeed given the larger variety of stock than the MHR has at its disposal (anything you look as long as it's Mk.1) it becomes more of a proposition.

 

1 with the Black 5 and 1 with 5643 later this month ( subject to sufficient number for the later). Photo Charters on the Bluebell are generally more expensive than elsewhere.

 

I've just had a further thought - there is an irony with what is happening at the Bluebell in that whilst some other railways get out their vintage trains for special events, at the Bluebell's gala in March it seems that they are putting them away and "going modern"! And why not? (Just not too often though, please!)

Steve B

 

I'm also not a gala person. The general perception out there is that a gala has to have several visiting locos above all to make it a success but I'd say that the cost of these visitors generally does not make it a success for the railway involved. If it is about bringing in the pennies, there are far easier and better ways of doing this. I also doubt the other oft suggested idea that it is to say thank you to the volunteers. On the two railways I'm involved in, staffing galas is one of the harder jobs because volunteers generally don't want to do them.